AMSOIL ?
08-15-2003, 09:48 AM
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AMSOIL ?
i want to change all my fluids to amsoil, I know to run 75w 90 in the frt and rear ends, and 15w 40 marine in the engine. filter sdf80
what do i use in the trans. and the t-case?
thanks for the info, Gonzo out
i have a 2003, ho, 6 speed, 4x4, quad cab
what do i use in the trans. and the t-case?
thanks for the info, Gonzo out
i have a 2003, ho, 6 speed, 4x4, quad cab
08-15-2003, 10:57 AM
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Re:AMSOIL ?
[quote author=bulabula link=board=17;threadid=18427;start=0#msg172936 date=1060960406]
Welcome Aboard, Gonzo86!
From my manual, the 6-shooter likes 75-85W GL-4 and the Xfer case likes ATF+4.
[/quote]
What he said, also what does your owners manual recommend for those applications. If you let me know, I'll cross those for you to the appropriate Amsoil Fluid.
I have just become a site sponsor for Amsoil, so if you give me a call or send me an email I'll be glad to help you out in anyway.
msparks@lube-direct.com
On the engine oil,you can use the 15w40 or the Series 3000 5w30 either one will work, though you will have to extend your drains quite a bit to recoup the cost of the 5w30. On the 15w40 I've seen good success with either Doing 5,000 changing filter then 5,000 more(this is the conservative drain) The other option would be 7500 change filter, 7500 drain the oil for a total of 15,000 on the oil.
With by-pass filtration Oil drains can be extended indefinately with filter changes and oil analysis.
Welcome Aboard, Gonzo86!
From my manual, the 6-shooter likes 75-85W GL-4 and the Xfer case likes ATF+4.
[/quote]
What he said, also what does your owners manual recommend for those applications. If you let me know, I'll cross those for you to the appropriate Amsoil Fluid.
I have just become a site sponsor for Amsoil, so if you give me a call or send me an email I'll be glad to help you out in anyway.
msparks@lube-direct.com
On the engine oil,you can use the 15w40 or the Series 3000 5w30 either one will work, though you will have to extend your drains quite a bit to recoup the cost of the 5w30. On the 15w40 I've seen good success with either Doing 5,000 changing filter then 5,000 more(this is the conservative drain) The other option would be 7500 change filter, 7500 drain the oil for a total of 15,000 on the oil.
With by-pass filtration Oil drains can be extended indefinately with filter changes and oil analysis.
08-15-2003, 11:39 AM
#4
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Re:AMSOIL ?
"On the engine oil,you can use the 15w40 or the Series 3000 5w30 either one will work, though you will have to extend your drains quite a bit to recoup the cost of the 5w30."
I've always had problems with the line of reasoning that states, use a top grade (EXPEN$IVE!) oil - THEN, to "recoup" cost, leave the stuff in yer crankcase for 5 years or so - sorta seems to defeat the purpose of the better stuff!
And, sorry, but for me, choosing between that ugly contaminated and diluted 5 year old expen$ive stuff, or a fresh charge of top quality dino oil like Delo is NO contest - I'll take the cleaner but "poorer" stuff every time!
I've seen guys with 100,000 miles on Amsoil, happy as clams with oil analysis reports showing WELL over 125 ppm iron and acompanying contamination - and for the LIFE of me, can't understand WHY they would honestly prefer THAT over a crankcase of NEW oil - dino or otherwise - that was down at ZERO contaminents! ??? ??? ???
I've always had problems with the line of reasoning that states, use a top grade (EXPEN$IVE!) oil - THEN, to "recoup" cost, leave the stuff in yer crankcase for 5 years or so - sorta seems to defeat the purpose of the better stuff!
And, sorry, but for me, choosing between that ugly contaminated and diluted 5 year old expen$ive stuff, or a fresh charge of top quality dino oil like Delo is NO contest - I'll take the cleaner but "poorer" stuff every time!
I've seen guys with 100,000 miles on Amsoil, happy as clams with oil analysis reports showing WELL over 125 ppm iron and acompanying contamination - and for the LIFE of me, can't understand WHY they would honestly prefer THAT over a crankcase of NEW oil - dino or otherwise - that was down at ZERO contaminents! ??? ??? ???
08-15-2003, 12:02 PM
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Re:AMSOIL ?
[quote author=Gary - KJ6Q link=board=17;threadid=18427;start=0#msg172963 date=1060965594]
I've always had problems with the line of reasoning that states, use a top grade (EXPEN$IVE!) oil - THEN, to "recoup" cost, leave the stuff in yer crankcase for 5 years or so - sorta seems to defeat the purpose of the better stuff!
And, sorry, but for me, choosing between that ugly contaminated and diluted 5 year old expen$ive stuff, or a fresh charge of top quality dino oil like Delo is NO contest - I'll take the cleaner but "poorer" stuff every time!
I've seen guys with 100,000 miles on Amsoil, happy as clams with oil analysis reports showing WELL over 125 ppm iron and acompanying contamination - and for the LIFE of me, can't understand WHY they would honestly prefer THAT over a crankcase of NEW oil - dino or otherwise - that was down at ZERO contaminents! ??? ??? ???
[/quote]
One thing is that the contaminants that are in an oil are being removed by the by-pass filter. The looks of the oil in most cases have no relation to how well it's protecting your engine. Ie, delo with 5,000 miles could be worse off than Amsoil and by-pass filter with 50,000 miles. Remember with the by-pass you are removing wear causing contaminates from 2 microns and up. Most full flow filters can only remove 25 microns and up. Also with the by-pass your removing Fuel, water, and even some glycol(if it were to be present)
Secondly wear metals are calculated at ppm per thousand. So new oil of 3000 miles with 10 ppm iron is actually worse than 110 at 50,000 miles.
If these programs didn't work there would be a whole heck of a lot of heavey machinery that would be wearing out prematurely. Oil analysis is used mostly in Industry becuase it is the only cost effective way to manage equipment, with using better filtration your ROI will have been recouped even faster(in most cases)
Believe me, it's a hard concept to grasp as most have been taught to change it when it looks dirty, It's even hard for Industrial customers to make the change. It has been just in the last 10-15 year that industry is taking a closer look at Predictive maintenance as opposed to Preventative maintenance.
Most automobiles require preventative(routine) maintenance as opposed to the more cost effective approach of Predictive maintenance.
Here is a link to some case studies for Analysis, as you note most won't be for Engines but for Industrial applications. This
has not made it to the crankcase applications yet. But I assure you it does work!
http://www.noria.com/learning_center/default.asp
I've always had problems with the line of reasoning that states, use a top grade (EXPEN$IVE!) oil - THEN, to "recoup" cost, leave the stuff in yer crankcase for 5 years or so - sorta seems to defeat the purpose of the better stuff!
And, sorry, but for me, choosing between that ugly contaminated and diluted 5 year old expen$ive stuff, or a fresh charge of top quality dino oil like Delo is NO contest - I'll take the cleaner but "poorer" stuff every time!
I've seen guys with 100,000 miles on Amsoil, happy as clams with oil analysis reports showing WELL over 125 ppm iron and acompanying contamination - and for the LIFE of me, can't understand WHY they would honestly prefer THAT over a crankcase of NEW oil - dino or otherwise - that was down at ZERO contaminents! ??? ??? ???
[/quote]
One thing is that the contaminants that are in an oil are being removed by the by-pass filter. The looks of the oil in most cases have no relation to how well it's protecting your engine. Ie, delo with 5,000 miles could be worse off than Amsoil and by-pass filter with 50,000 miles. Remember with the by-pass you are removing wear causing contaminates from 2 microns and up. Most full flow filters can only remove 25 microns and up. Also with the by-pass your removing Fuel, water, and even some glycol(if it were to be present)
Secondly wear metals are calculated at ppm per thousand. So new oil of 3000 miles with 10 ppm iron is actually worse than 110 at 50,000 miles.
If these programs didn't work there would be a whole heck of a lot of heavey machinery that would be wearing out prematurely. Oil analysis is used mostly in Industry becuase it is the only cost effective way to manage equipment, with using better filtration your ROI will have been recouped even faster(in most cases)
Believe me, it's a hard concept to grasp as most have been taught to change it when it looks dirty, It's even hard for Industrial customers to make the change. It has been just in the last 10-15 year that industry is taking a closer look at Predictive maintenance as opposed to Preventative maintenance.
Most automobiles require preventative(routine) maintenance as opposed to the more cost effective approach of Predictive maintenance.
Here is a link to some case studies for Analysis, as you note most won't be for Engines but for Industrial applications. This
has not made it to the crankcase applications yet. But I assure you it does work!
http://www.noria.com/learning_center/default.asp
08-15-2003, 12:20 PM
#6
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Re:AMSOIL ?
"Secondly wear metals are calculated at ppm per thousand. So new oil of 3000 miles with 10 ppm iron is actually worse than 110 at 50,000 miles."
Forget the 50,000 miles bit, and tell me honestly, WHICH oil would YOU prefer in YOUR crankcase - the 10 ppm stuff, or the 110 ppm stuff - and IF you really prefer the 10 ppm stuff - REGARDLESS of whether it's dino or synthetic, WHY would you leave the 110 ppm stuff in there - especially if consideration for the operation and care of the engine was you primary goal to begin with? ??? ???
OR, to put this in another perspective, and since we're talking Amsoil here, which would you honestly feel provides the best engine protection and operation, Amsoil at 50,000 miles with 110 ppm iron and similar percentages of other contaminents - OR a fresh change of Delo at zero percentages, which would you prefer in your engine?
And IF you would prefer the newer, cleaner stuff, why leave the old stuff in there? Only because you spent more for it, and felt compelled to squeeze the last bit of use out of it to get your money's worth? If you don't PAY large amounts up front for that expensive syuff, there's no NEED to leave it in there for extreme periods of time and mileage - and the average contaminent levels with more frequent oil changes HAS to be a GOOD thing! ;D ;D
Again, the CHOICE is between 10 (or zero in the above) ppm and 110 ppm - the mileage is irrelevant... I can sure tell you which *I* would prefer, and it ISN'T the 110 ppm stuff! ;D ;D ;D
BUT, if you can honestly say you prefer the 50,000 mile Amsoil with 110 ppm contaminents, well, I guess that pretty much ends the discussion...
;D ;D
Forget the 50,000 miles bit, and tell me honestly, WHICH oil would YOU prefer in YOUR crankcase - the 10 ppm stuff, or the 110 ppm stuff - and IF you really prefer the 10 ppm stuff - REGARDLESS of whether it's dino or synthetic, WHY would you leave the 110 ppm stuff in there - especially if consideration for the operation and care of the engine was you primary goal to begin with? ??? ???
OR, to put this in another perspective, and since we're talking Amsoil here, which would you honestly feel provides the best engine protection and operation, Amsoil at 50,000 miles with 110 ppm iron and similar percentages of other contaminents - OR a fresh change of Delo at zero percentages, which would you prefer in your engine?
And IF you would prefer the newer, cleaner stuff, why leave the old stuff in there? Only because you spent more for it, and felt compelled to squeeze the last bit of use out of it to get your money's worth? If you don't PAY large amounts up front for that expensive syuff, there's no NEED to leave it in there for extreme periods of time and mileage - and the average contaminent levels with more frequent oil changes HAS to be a GOOD thing! ;D ;D
Again, the CHOICE is between 10 (or zero in the above) ppm and 110 ppm - the mileage is irrelevant... I can sure tell you which *I* would prefer, and it ISN'T the 110 ppm stuff! ;D ;D ;D
BUT, if you can honestly say you prefer the 50,000 mile Amsoil with 110 ppm contaminents, well, I guess that pretty much ends the discussion...
;D ;D
08-15-2003, 12:56 PM
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Re:AMSOIL ?
[quote author=Gary - KJ6Q link=board=17;threadid=18427;start=0#msg172980 date=1060968007]
- the 10 ppm stuff, or the 110 ppm stuff - and IF you really prefer the 10 ppm stuff - REGARDLESS of whether it's dino or synthetic, WHY would you leave the 110 ppm stuff in there - especially if consideration for the operation and care of the engine was you primary goal to begin with? ??? ???
[/quote]
You can't look at it as actual particles in your oil, because it's not. This is not wear causing debris, when they take a spectrographic analysis they are not counting particles.
How do they measure wear metals? This is done through FTIR(Fourier Transform Infrared Spectrometery) They are basically measuring a light wave given off by certain metals when they are heated.
So you don't actually have 100 ppm of Iron floating around in your oil, this is why by-pass filtration cannot remove this, as it's now chemically part of the oil. It will do no harm same with any other wear metal. The thing is trending this wear metal to see how it goes up or down over time. You would ask how would it go down? As in when you change a filter and top off your oil, you are changing the diluation of these wear metals.
The infrared region of the electromagnetic spectrum includes radiation at wavelengths between 0.7 and 500 microns or in wave numbers, between 14,000 and 20 cm-l. Molecules have specific frequencies which are directly associated with their rotational and vibrational motions. Infrared absorptions result from changes in the vibrational and rotational state of a molecular bond. These changes are subtly affected by interaction with neighboring atoms or groups, as well as resonating structures, hydrogen bonds, and ring strain. This imposes a stamp of individuality on each molecule's infrared absorption spectrum in the FTIR Oil Analysis.
So to answer your question, I would rather have 50,000 mile oil with a 110ppm or .0022 ppm/1K miles iron wear. Then one that has 3000 with 10 ppm or .0333 ppm/1K miles iron wear.
- the 10 ppm stuff, or the 110 ppm stuff - and IF you really prefer the 10 ppm stuff - REGARDLESS of whether it's dino or synthetic, WHY would you leave the 110 ppm stuff in there - especially if consideration for the operation and care of the engine was you primary goal to begin with? ??? ???
[/quote]
You can't look at it as actual particles in your oil, because it's not. This is not wear causing debris, when they take a spectrographic analysis they are not counting particles.
How do they measure wear metals? This is done through FTIR(Fourier Transform Infrared Spectrometery) They are basically measuring a light wave given off by certain metals when they are heated.
So you don't actually have 100 ppm of Iron floating around in your oil, this is why by-pass filtration cannot remove this, as it's now chemically part of the oil. It will do no harm same with any other wear metal. The thing is trending this wear metal to see how it goes up or down over time. You would ask how would it go down? As in when you change a filter and top off your oil, you are changing the diluation of these wear metals.
The infrared region of the electromagnetic spectrum includes radiation at wavelengths between 0.7 and 500 microns or in wave numbers, between 14,000 and 20 cm-l. Molecules have specific frequencies which are directly associated with their rotational and vibrational motions. Infrared absorptions result from changes in the vibrational and rotational state of a molecular bond. These changes are subtly affected by interaction with neighboring atoms or groups, as well as resonating structures, hydrogen bonds, and ring strain. This imposes a stamp of individuality on each molecule's infrared absorption spectrum in the FTIR Oil Analysis.
So to answer your question, I would rather have 50,000 mile oil with a 110ppm or .0022 ppm/1K miles iron wear. Then one that has 3000 with 10 ppm or .0333 ppm/1K miles iron wear.
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08-15-2003, 01:14 PM
#9
Re:AMSOIL ?
This thread was started as a question by a member who has made the choice to use a product, he wanted to know which one of their products would be best for his particular use.
I see absolutely no reason for this thread to be hijacked off in another direction to debate the product itself. This thread was not a question about which brand of oil was your favorite.
Lets keep it on track here fellas.
I see absolutely no reason for this thread to be hijacked off in another direction to debate the product itself. This thread was not a question about which brand of oil was your favorite.
Lets keep it on track here fellas.
08-15-2003, 01:24 PM
#10
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Re:AMSOIL ?
[quote author=Mr. 45 link=board=17;threadid=18427;start=#msg172988 date=1060970652]
O NO
And it is off ;D I hope this stay's nice ;D
[/quote]
NAHhhh - just a friendly discussion of relative viewpoints - and many of the attributes of synthetics as they apply to gearboxes, also apply to other areas - performance vs cost being the primary one. Absolutely no offense intended, or taken...
And as far as "off topic" is concerned, the lead comment was:
"i want to change ALL my fluids to amsoil"
THAT would seemingly open up the thread for discussion of engine lube as well as the gearboxes - and Amsoil WAS the specific lube mentioned, and what the above last few posts were covering - and THOSE due to a statement made by one of our Amsoil site sponsors that I thought worth enlarging upon...
I fully support the notion of keeping threads as "on topic" as reasonably possible or practical - but truth be known, *I* often learn as much or more from some of the "added" stuff that sneaks in on the sidelines - and once the basic request has been answered as it was here, the added stuff doesn't seem to take much away from the basic thread subject - but I'll be good Lary - honest... ;D ;D ;D
My personal vote - and my practice, is use a top synthetic in as many places as you can afford it, and get proper operation from it - it's undoubtedly superior stuff... ;D ;D
O NO
And it is off ;D I hope this stay's nice ;D[/quote]
NAHhhh - just a friendly discussion of relative viewpoints - and many of the attributes of synthetics as they apply to gearboxes, also apply to other areas - performance vs cost being the primary one. Absolutely no offense intended, or taken...
And as far as "off topic" is concerned, the lead comment was:
"i want to change ALL my fluids to amsoil"
THAT would seemingly open up the thread for discussion of engine lube as well as the gearboxes - and Amsoil WAS the specific lube mentioned, and what the above last few posts were covering - and THOSE due to a statement made by one of our Amsoil site sponsors that I thought worth enlarging upon...
I fully support the notion of keeping threads as "on topic" as reasonably possible or practical - but truth be known, *I* often learn as much or more from some of the "added" stuff that sneaks in on the sidelines - and once the basic request has been answered as it was here, the added stuff doesn't seem to take much away from the basic thread subject - but I'll be good Lary - honest... ;D ;D ;D
My personal vote - and my practice, is use a top synthetic in as many places as you can afford it, and get proper operation from it - it's undoubtedly superior stuff...
;D ;D
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