Tazman

Hey all,

Hoping someone is able to confirm a thing or two for me.

I've got a pair of Optima Reds about two years old. Recently, alternator output was obviously no good with a longer than usual pause to come up from 10v after starting and getting nowhere near the 14+v when it finally did start to charge. That finally died and I thought I would try a rebuild kit.

The rebuild went fine, the charging came back to life and the world was good.

The problem I have now is after the truck sits for a day or so at -12c there is not enough there to get started. A quick charge for 15 minutes or so and she will start.

I went to a reputable battery sales guy and asked if they could load test the Optimas for me. I was surprised when he performed a test while both were connected and in the truck. The verdict, both were at 12.2 volts and considered "sick" as this should have been 12.8v after being on the road all morning.

I'm confused as the volt meter shows 14+v indicating all is well with the charging system. I confirmed 14.25v at the batteries while the truck is running.

This is beginning to smell like battery replacement time but at only two years old??

Thoughts anyone??

Taz

Dinner

There are a few topics on here about people having bad luck with Optimas. Sounds like the batteries are not holding their charge properly.

How did he load tests the batteries? Did he leave them connected to eachother or did he load tests each one separate and properly?

Tazman

Testing was done connected together and in the truck. That's the part that surprised me. I would have thought they would need to be separated.

I put a meter across them at home separated. one was at 12.2 the other at 12.15v after a 30 minute drive.

As far as "properly" is concerned I can't say. It was a small handheld device that seemed to be able to determine CCA.

Taz

J.Suplanski

Got 7 years out of my red tops,just changed them out a few months ago, went to blue tops 155.00 each at Costco

wyododge

Taz you may want to check your cables. I am sure you already checked this but I had a very similar situation with my batteries. I changed out my cables and when I cut the end on the old ones to look at them, they waere pretty corroded inside of the shielding. I could not see the corrosion with out cutting into the cables. After changing all my cables and connectors out, cold cranking and grid heaters worked great even after not being plugged in at -27f. Unfortunately my batteries were toast, and I had to change them out later. I am not sure if this is part of the problem, but you may want to check it out just to make sure.

I had full voltage at my batteries prior to any changes.I think my ground cable was the culprit and led to the failure, but I am not sure. I changed everything, I am often in the middle of nowhere so I could not afford to get stuck and freeze to death.

Also, when I had my batteries checked out they removed the cables from each battery. The guy at Napa said you have to isolate each battery to get an accurate CCM reading.

Here is a site from another post for new cables if you need them.

http://custombatterycables.com

Dinner

That is correct.

To properly Load Test batteries you have to have them disconnected from each other. Once that is done, you can get the CCA Rating of the battery and begin the test. Connect the Load Tester and take note of the state of charge of the battery. Load the battery to half of its CCA rating for the 15 seconds and take load off. Take note of the Voltage when Load is first taken off, now wait 15-30 seconds for battery to charge itself back to original state.

The battery should drop to a minimum charge when the load is first taken off (read at the 13-15 seconds during the load test). This depends on the temperature of the battery, and ambient air temperature. If the charge drops below the specified charge for that temperature, it is bad. Now for the reading after 15-30 seconds of letting the battery charge back up. If the battery does not come back up to its initial state of charge (voltage before the load test) within that 30 seconds, it is classified as a bad battery.

The test he did was probably with a little hand held device that uses the loads on the truck (a/c, head lights, radio, etc, etc) to get a reading for whether the battery is good/needs charging/needs replaced. However this should also be done with the batteries separated from one another.

But however, if your batteries were at 12.2 and 12.15 after a 30 minute drive, they are not holding a charge. Could be low electrolyte, or a cell(s) is started to "die". If you wanted you could charge them with a shop charger and see if they hold a charge that way. Or you could replace them if you feel like they aren't going to last much longer. And as wyododge said, check all your cables and connections as well. No point in throwing in new batteries with connections that have "Green Death" on them

Tazman

Thanks everyone,

I don't have much faith in the load test performed. I'm going to put them on the shop charger and see what that does.

Interesting observations on your part wyododge, I would have thought 14+v at the batteries while running was good enough to say they were getting what they need to stay healthy. I will definitely take a look at these asap.

Tazman

Been sitting with a coffee mulling this over.....wyododge, what made you suspect cables in the first place? especially if you couldn't see corrosion and you had charge voltage at the batts?

Just trying to plan the best way forward here......

cheers,

Taz

wyododge

Batteries seemed okay, not great but okay, connections were tight down below, had some corrosion and my original lead connectors were kind of beat up.
Decided I would get new connectors (suggestion from NAPA guy) pulled the cables, took them to NAPA, cut off the old connectors and noticed the corrosion. Cut the shielding and WOW. NO GOOD!!!! Replaced ALL my cables (kinda like cancer, only way to get it out is to nuke it) If you are not sure, just cut off your connectors and peel back a half inch or inch of the shielding to see what the copper looks like. If it is good (copper color not black or green), your out a few bucks and have new connectors on all your cables, all good. Check your voltage, take the wife and kids for a 2 hour drive (daytime) re check voltage. If it is not different, or worse, your batteries are probably shot. If your cables are bad you will have to replace them, new batteries or not.

Also, not sure where you are, but understand I am in areas that can get to -60f actual not wind chill. I have little if any room for error so I make darn sure my truck will start. You may not need to go this extreme. But your batteries will last longer if they have proper voltage and as little resistance in delivery and charging as possible, ie good, fat, thin stranded cables.

wyododge

Tazman,

Just read this in another post by BearKiller- Great Idea.

"The secret to a good long-lasting electrical crimp is to saturate the strands with Vaseline and fill the lug with it, crimp, then heat-shrink three layers."

I wish I had done this. Damm

Bluedually4x4

All the the cables in my 98 were the same way, corroded from the inside out. They are not very cheap either.

Tate

I am suspecting the batteries won't hold a charge for long since once the charger is placed on it, the truck will fire up. If it were cables, it should still be sluggish. You're charging at proper voltage, so the alt. should be good. Get the batteries load tested properly and see what you find.

Tazman

I am beginning to suspect the batts more and more. I placed the shop charger on @ 35 amp setting for 3 hours and they were still drawing 10 amps. The voltage after residual was knocked off (heater grids for 20 seconds) was 12.2v

I left the charger on all night at the trickle setting (2 amp) and the best I could get out of them was 12.4v

The alternator continues to look strong at 14.25v at idle. I will recheck all cable connections today and run some diagnostics as suggested in other threads.

Cheers all and thanks

Taz

Junk Man

You frequently can find corrosion by measuring voltage drop. With both probes on battery terminals, measure battery voltage. Then move 1 probe to the cable terminal. Voltage should = prior measurement. Then move to the cable end. Repeat for other side & then for 2nd battery. Since alternator is putting out and it's getting to the battery (14+ volts measured at the battery terminals) I'd suspect the battery. You can measure each cell. Put probe in cell 1&2. It should be 1/6 of the full charge. Move probe fron cell 2 to 3. Voltage should increase by 1/6 of total.

shortie

If you ran for any period of time with your alternator not functioning properly you killed your batteries.
Any time a battery sits not fully charged sulfation starts and battery capacity is lost.
The other thing that could be taking place is you have a shorted cell in one battery, feel the batteries after charging for an hour or so if one of them is much warmer than the other it has a shorted cell.
The fact that they will start the truck just not after sitting for a couple days is usually an indication of a shorted cell, the bad battery will run them both flat.