airdog vs raptor
08-25-2009, 08:46 PM
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airdog vs raptor
what is the big difference i know airdog has separator and filter .but is it really needed why isnt most guys going with just the raptor and using stock fuel filter housing. there is a big price difference and i cant see spending the crazy amount these fuel systems are . please give me pros and cons and why no one uses raptor
08-25-2009, 10:09 PM
#2
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Because the air dog does so much more. First, it completely bypasses the factory fuel system, bigger pump, bigger line. You can get more fuel to the engine. Second, it allows a higher level of filtration of the fuel. Third, it has a built in percolator to take the air out of the fuel from it sloshing around in the tank, which will relatively give you improved mileage. Forth, It has a better, drainable water seperator than that of the factory system.
Atleast these are the reasons i have for justifying my money spent on it.
Atleast these are the reasons i have for justifying my money spent on it.
08-26-2009, 06:56 AM
#3
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I'm using the Raptor and very pleased with it. Also using a drop in Baldwin 5 micron filter in the canister.
With the extra money saved you can install a remote 2 micron CAT filter down stream for even better filtration.
MikeyB
With the extra money saved you can install a remote 2 micron CAT filter down stream for even better filtration.
MikeyB
08-26-2009, 10:10 AM
#4
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Because the air dog does so much more. First, it completely bypasses the factory fuel system, bigger pump, bigger line. You can get more fuel to the engine. Second, it allows a higher level of filtration of the fuel. Third, it has a built in percolator to take the air out of the fuel from it sloshing around in the tank, which will relatively give you improved mileage. Forth, It has a better, drainable water seperator than that of the factory system.
Atleast these are the reasons i have for justifying my money spent on it.
Atleast these are the reasons i have for justifying my money spent on it.
1: the pumps are great pumps, line is good (if you need it)... bypassing the OE system is BAD (I'll explain)
2. Its not a higher level of overall filtration... (I'll explain)
3: Yes the air removal is good, but not as important as f/w sep.
4: The f/w sep is a JOKE at best..
So now to explain.
Lets talk the stock fuel filter on a HPCR.
FS19800E (FS19856) is a 7um absolute filter, that separates 95% free water and 95% emulsified water, at a rated flow of 60GPH.
Per TSB 14-007-06 Dodge requires 7um absolute and 95% free and emulsified water sep at 37.5 GPH.
So lets look at the AD filters.
FF100-3 is a Fleetguard FF5613. Its rated at 5um absolute (not the 2um or 3um many people claim). Its rated for 60GPH.
WS100 is a Fleetguard FS19768. Its rated 100% at 140um. The f/w specs are 50% free water and 0% emulsified water at 19.8 GPH.
So as you can see the overall filtration of an AD is 5um and 50% free and 0% emulsified water, so it meets the OE requirement for filtration but isn't even close on f/w sep.
So with an AD you either live with the fact you have worse filtration, upgrade your system further, or leave the OE filter in place. Most people do the first based on lack of knowledge and AD telling you to remove the OE system. Upgrading the system further is a possibility (actually just changing the FS19768 for a FS19594 gets you to 90% free/emulsified) but takes more work, and finally most folks who learn of the shortcoming of the AD add the OE system back in.. If you use high flow -AN fittings on the OE bowl you won't have a restriction.. remember the OE filter is rated for the same flow as the AD filter and 3x the flow of the AD f/w sep. (Also the OE bowl keeps your WIF sensor, while most claim it sucks it IS better than nothing)..
Something to consider is that Baldwin makes the PF7977 which is 5um absolute and 95% free and emulsifed water sep, and its an OE replacement. So with just a filter you can have better filtration than the AD.
So back to the original question.. Raptor all the way. Better final filtration and f/w sep seems MUCH more important to me than air separation.
So, IMHO, the best setup would be as follows.
Tank -- Baldwin FS1212 -- Raptor Pump -- OE Filter Bowl w/ a PF7977 -- Cat 2um (1R-0750) -- Gauge sender -- CP3. Every filter is rated for 60GPH or better and gets you 2 f/w seps that meet OE requirement, and 2 filters that exceed OE filtration specs.
08-26-2009, 12:35 PM
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Got to love false advertising.. let's dissect your reasons..
1: the pumps are great pumps, line is good (if you need it)... bypassing the OE system is BAD (I'll explain)
2. Its not a higher level of overall filtration... (I'll explain)
3: Yes the air removal is good, but not as important as f/w sep.
4: The f/w sep is a JOKE at best..
So now to explain.
Lets talk the stock fuel filter on a HPCR.
FS19800E (FS19856) is a 7um absolute filter, that separates 95% free water and 95% emulsified water, at a rated flow of 60GPH.
Per TSB 14-007-06 Dodge requires 7um absolute and 95% free and emulsified water sep at 37.5 GPH.
So lets look at the AD filters.
FF100-3 is a Fleetguard FF5613. Its rated at 5um absolute (not the 2um or 3um many people claim). Its rated for 60GPH.
WS100 is a Fleetguard FS19768. Its rated 100% at 140um. The f/w specs are 50% free water and 0% emulsified water at 19.8 GPH.
So as you can see the overall filtration of an AD is 5um and 50% free and 0% emulsified water, so it meets the OE requirement for filtration but isn't even close on f/w sep.
So with an AD you either live with the fact you have worse filtration, upgrade your system further, or leave the OE filter in place. Most people do the first based on lack of knowledge and AD telling you to remove the OE system. Upgrading the system further is a possibility (actually just changing the FS19768 for a FS19594 gets you to 90% free/emulsified) but takes more work, and finally most folks who learn of the shortcoming of the AD add the OE system back in.. If you use high flow -AN fittings on the OE bowl you won't have a restriction.. remember the OE filter is rated for the same flow as the AD filter and 3x the flow of the AD f/w sep. (Also the OE bowl keeps your WIF sensor, while most claim it sucks it IS better than nothing)..
Something to consider is that Baldwin makes the PF7977 which is 5um absolute and 95% free and emulsifed water sep, and its an OE replacement. So with just a filter you can have better filtration than the AD.
So back to the original question.. Raptor all the way. Better final filtration and f/w sep seems MUCH more important to me than air separation.
So, IMHO, the best setup would be as follows.
Tank -- Baldwin FS1212 -- Raptor Pump -- OE Filter Bowl w/ a PF7977 -- Cat 2um (1R-0750) -- Gauge sender -- CP3. Every filter is rated for 60GPH or better and gets you 2 f/w seps that meet OE requirement, and 2 filters that exceed OE filtration specs.
1: the pumps are great pumps, line is good (if you need it)... bypassing the OE system is BAD (I'll explain)
2. Its not a higher level of overall filtration... (I'll explain)
3: Yes the air removal is good, but not as important as f/w sep.
4: The f/w sep is a JOKE at best..
So now to explain.
Lets talk the stock fuel filter on a HPCR.
FS19800E (FS19856) is a 7um absolute filter, that separates 95% free water and 95% emulsified water, at a rated flow of 60GPH.
Per TSB 14-007-06 Dodge requires 7um absolute and 95% free and emulsified water sep at 37.5 GPH.
So lets look at the AD filters.
FF100-3 is a Fleetguard FF5613. Its rated at 5um absolute (not the 2um or 3um many people claim). Its rated for 60GPH.
WS100 is a Fleetguard FS19768. Its rated 100% at 140um. The f/w specs are 50% free water and 0% emulsified water at 19.8 GPH.
So as you can see the overall filtration of an AD is 5um and 50% free and 0% emulsified water, so it meets the OE requirement for filtration but isn't even close on f/w sep.
So with an AD you either live with the fact you have worse filtration, upgrade your system further, or leave the OE filter in place. Most people do the first based on lack of knowledge and AD telling you to remove the OE system. Upgrading the system further is a possibility (actually just changing the FS19768 for a FS19594 gets you to 90% free/emulsified) but takes more work, and finally most folks who learn of the shortcoming of the AD add the OE system back in.. If you use high flow -AN fittings on the OE bowl you won't have a restriction.. remember the OE filter is rated for the same flow as the AD filter and 3x the flow of the AD f/w sep. (Also the OE bowl keeps your WIF sensor, while most claim it sucks it IS better than nothing)..
Something to consider is that Baldwin makes the PF7977 which is 5um absolute and 95% free and emulsifed water sep, and its an OE replacement. So with just a filter you can have better filtration than the AD.
So back to the original question.. Raptor all the way. Better final filtration and f/w sep seems MUCH more important to me than air separation.
So, IMHO, the best setup would be as follows.
Tank -- Baldwin FS1212 -- Raptor Pump -- OE Filter Bowl w/ a PF7977 -- Cat 2um (1R-0750) -- Gauge sender -- CP3. Every filter is rated for 60GPH or better and gets you 2 f/w seps that meet OE requirement, and 2 filters that exceed OE filtration specs.
08-26-2009, 08:30 PM
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Yeh!!! I being new at this stuff am trying to add knot to knot and still have enough for some good stuff...spending money on something I don't need is keeping me from spending money on something else I think I need. While what I'm not buying is something I thought I needed 3 minutes ago. So for someone just learning....you just said keep your stock for now it will take care of business.
08-26-2009, 08:51 PM
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If I was doing it again I'd go with the raptor, you don't need to plumb the AD return back to the canister, easier install, I don't buy into the air removal thing. For me there was no performance or mileage gains with the AD.
I'd run it through the factory water separator and add an in line 2 micron filter.
I'd run it through the factory water separator and add an in line 2 micron filter.
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08-26-2009, 10:40 PM
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Been running a raptor 150 with the baldwin 5 mic filter for about 2 years now and no complaints. Just remember to put a piece of rubber between the raptor and the frame rail (if you mount it there) or the noise from it's vibration will be loud.
08-27-2009, 09:15 AM
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I went with the Raptor 100, as dont plan breaking 550hp. Thats what the limit of the raptor is from Pure Tech. Not sure what the 150 is, at the time need the 1/2 draw straw. Now that issues has been fixed. The Raptor hooks to the top the sending unit housing with supplied dorman fittings, no return line. Then I ran it to a inline 2mic fuel filter that can be got at any truck shop/stop or cat dealer. Sure it wasnt much more to get the airdog, but the very limited possables of airdog filters made me not choose it. In our town of 25,000+, nobody has airdog filters in fleetguard. We have 5 oem truck dealers, 1 cummins dealer, nothing. City to the west of over 1 million nothing either. Buddy was going to nadp blackout, guess got bad fuel, lost fuel pressure to the injection pump. Wasnt able to run, searched alot trying to find replacement fuel filters. Thats my 2cents, yes we know should of had spares. He is now going to have extras.
08-27-2009, 10:56 AM
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I run a FASS HPFP 150 (without filters) and use the Baldwin PF7977 filter in the stock filter housing and haven't had a problem yet. I'd like to have another inline water separator but not sure what filter head to go with.
08-27-2009, 04:39 PM
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thanks for the help but i am a little lost on what all you are talking about with all the part numbers and abreviations maybe some links to the setup and pics would help.
Got to love false advertising.. let's dissect your reasons..
1: the pumps are great pumps, line is good (if you need it)... bypassing the OE system is BAD (I'll explain)
2. Its not a higher level of overall filtration... (I'll explain)
3: Yes the air removal is good, but not as important as f/w sep.
4: The f/w sep is a JOKE at best..
So now to explain.
Lets talk the stock fuel filter on a HPCR.
FS19800E (FS19856) is a 7um absolute filter, that separates 95% free water and 95% emulsified water, at a rated flow of 60GPH.
Per TSB 14-007-06 Dodge requires 7um absolute and 95% free and emulsified water sep at 37.5 GPH.
So lets look at the AD filters.
FF100-3 is a Fleetguard FF5613. Its rated at 5um absolute (not the 2um or 3um many people claim). Its rated for 60GPH.
WS100 is a Fleetguard FS19768. Its rated 100% at 140um. The f/w specs are 50% free water and 0% emulsified water at 19.8 GPH.
So as you can see the overall filtration of an AD is 5um and 50% free and 0% emulsified water, so it meets the OE requirement for filtration but isn't even close on f/w sep.
So with an AD you either live with the fact you have worse filtration, upgrade your system further, or leave the OE filter in place. Most people do the first based on lack of knowledge and AD telling you to remove the OE system. Upgrading the system further is a possibility (actually just changing the FS19768 for a FS19594 gets you to 90% free/emulsified) but takes more work, and finally most folks who learn of the shortcoming of the AD add the OE system back in.. If you use high flow -AN fittings on the OE bowl you won't have a restriction.. remember the OE filter is rated for the same flow as the AD filter and 3x the flow of the AD f/w sep. (Also the OE bowl keeps your WIF sensor, while most claim it sucks it IS better than nothing)..
Something to consider is that Baldwin makes the PF7977 which is 5um absolute and 95% free and emulsifed water sep, and its an OE replacement. So with just a filter you can have better filtration than the AD.
So back to the original question.. Raptor all the way. Better final filtration and f/w sep seems MUCH more important to me than air separation.
So, IMHO, the best setup would be as follows.
Tank -- Baldwin FS1212 -- Raptor Pump -- OE Filter Bowl w/ a PF7977 -- Cat 2um (1R-0750) -- Gauge sender -- CP3. Every filter is rated for 60GPH or better and gets you 2 f/w seps that meet OE requirement, and 2 filters that exceed OE filtration specs.
1: the pumps are great pumps, line is good (if you need it)... bypassing the OE system is BAD (I'll explain)
2. Its not a higher level of overall filtration... (I'll explain)
3: Yes the air removal is good, but not as important as f/w sep.
4: The f/w sep is a JOKE at best..
So now to explain.
Lets talk the stock fuel filter on a HPCR.
FS19800E (FS19856) is a 7um absolute filter, that separates 95% free water and 95% emulsified water, at a rated flow of 60GPH.
Per TSB 14-007-06 Dodge requires 7um absolute and 95% free and emulsified water sep at 37.5 GPH.
So lets look at the AD filters.
FF100-3 is a Fleetguard FF5613. Its rated at 5um absolute (not the 2um or 3um many people claim). Its rated for 60GPH.
WS100 is a Fleetguard FS19768. Its rated 100% at 140um. The f/w specs are 50% free water and 0% emulsified water at 19.8 GPH.
So as you can see the overall filtration of an AD is 5um and 50% free and 0% emulsified water, so it meets the OE requirement for filtration but isn't even close on f/w sep.
So with an AD you either live with the fact you have worse filtration, upgrade your system further, or leave the OE filter in place. Most people do the first based on lack of knowledge and AD telling you to remove the OE system. Upgrading the system further is a possibility (actually just changing the FS19768 for a FS19594 gets you to 90% free/emulsified) but takes more work, and finally most folks who learn of the shortcoming of the AD add the OE system back in.. If you use high flow -AN fittings on the OE bowl you won't have a restriction.. remember the OE filter is rated for the same flow as the AD filter and 3x the flow of the AD f/w sep. (Also the OE bowl keeps your WIF sensor, while most claim it sucks it IS better than nothing)..
Something to consider is that Baldwin makes the PF7977 which is 5um absolute and 95% free and emulsifed water sep, and its an OE replacement. So with just a filter you can have better filtration than the AD.
So back to the original question.. Raptor all the way. Better final filtration and f/w sep seems MUCH more important to me than air separation.
So, IMHO, the best setup would be as follows.
Tank -- Baldwin FS1212 -- Raptor Pump -- OE Filter Bowl w/ a PF7977 -- Cat 2um (1R-0750) -- Gauge sender -- CP3. Every filter is rated for 60GPH or better and gets you 2 f/w seps that meet OE requirement, and 2 filters that exceed OE filtration specs.
08-27-2009, 04:56 PM
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My fass has been wonderful-plan to change to airdog soon. either way youll love spinning a filter off UNDER you pickup without leaving a trail of diesel over your paint. We mostly run IH tractors which have a similar setup- these tractors have seen some of the worst fuel and the absolute worst thing we got was a plugged set of filters
08-28-2009, 09:48 AM
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08-28-2009, 04:10 PM
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I was just getting ready to place an order for the AD and now I'm re-thinking. I didn't want to mess with the stock filter canister and I figured I would need to go to a big line kit also to get proper flow when using the raptor. That is why I was going to go airdog. Choices, choices.