HOHN

Here's something I was thinking about the other day.

I see a lot of guys driving around with really neat Toyo M/Ts or other really cool knobby off-road rubber that just looks great. But the tires are expensive. And wear quickly. And don't work well on ice and wet. And aren't that much better in snow. And reduce fuel economy.. etc etc etc..

So was thinking that maybe it made more sense to go with a milder tire, but upgrade the diffs to either a quality LSD (read: not that factory trak-lok I have) or a real locker (selectable, preferably, like ARB or Electrac, etc).

Then, I'd ALWAYS have better traction available, no matter which tires I'm running. I could buy cheaper tires that would also last longer and deliver better mpg.

I don't think it would take that long to where the cost of diff upgrades would be paid for in mpg and tire cost.

I rarely off-road, and those place I'd go would almost certainly be passable with a mild A/T tire and locked diffs.

I'm far more concerned with being able to handle 2-3 feet of snow and not get ON the road! (snow covered gravel, etc). I'm smart enough to avoid mud that's beyond the abilities of my truck.


Anyone have any experience running upgraded diffs and milder tires? I'd like some evidence to support my theory.

Justin

TXaggie09

lockers are better for traction than aggressive tires hands down. However, if you just want a locker to save from tire wear on more agressive tires then im not sure its the best choice. Any time you make a turn with it locked, it will wear down the inside tire (the tighter the turn, the more the wear). Dont mess with a limited slip, theyre uselsess IMO. ARB's and electrac's are in the 700-800 range, so you would have to save a whole lot in tires to justify it. However, if you get into a hairy situation, its very nice to have that button to press and then calmly drive out.
Ive never driven on snow so I cant say which is better, but it would seem like some good snow tires would be better for daily driving since your not going to want to drive around with the diff locked up. My reasoning for that is because when you have a locker and the back end gets loose, it can be rather tricky, much moreso than if you just have one wheel spinning.

in my offroad rig i had those fancy tires that you speak of (goodyear mtr's) and they made a big difference in off-road capability but absolutely no where near the difference from adding a locker.

in summary, i think some all-terrain tire (more agressive than highway tread but less agressive than a mud tread) and a rear locker would be a sweet setup. Hope this helps

edit: if you do decide to go with a locker (or two) be careful off-road, it makes the rig much much more capable than you would think. I rolled my jeep the first time i took it out with a locked rear just because I wasnt used to the traction and climbed up side-hill a little too far.

Big Blue24

Hohn, these Definity Dakota AT's that I'm running are the best snow tire that I've ever had on a truck. Great on ice, slush, and the occasional 2-3ft drift. These tires will hands down out push, out crawl, out everything off road better than my buck shot mudders that I had before. Except of course mud bog, but in my experience, the heavy diesel is not great in the mud anyway. Also, my mudders were 315's and these are just 285's. I paid 500 shipped for all four, and so far, wear has been exceptional. You can also get them at Pep Boys when they have their buy 3, get one free deal for 530 out the door.

As far as tight limited slip, I think that would be scary on icy roads, slick side hills, or nasty creek bottoms with trees that catch ya when you slide sideways at all.

dieselman2300

Are they E rated tires? I remember looking at these and all they had a year ago were D rated. D rated tires are TO light for our trucks.

Also, they had a BIG recall on Definity tires, the 285s were on the list.

Dartmouth 12V

I have often pondered this myself. I have concluded that if I were to buy another locker, I would pay the extra to get a selectable one because it would pay off in terms of fuel mileage, tire wear, and driveability. However, I don't know whether it would be better to go with milder tires and selectable lockers or better tires and open diffs. If you are looking at this for snow, most situations in snow are better with open diffs. The only time you want to be locked up in snow is when you are trying to go through really deep stuff(deeper than you would ever find on the road) and it is not off angle. Locked diffs makes both tires slide so if it is in the rear, the truck tries to spin or the rear slides downhill on a sideslope. If you are planning on keeping the truck for a long time, I think a selectable locker and decent AT tires would be a good investment.

justme-

A LS or locker in the rear only will definitely improve the capability of milder tires- but many of the more aggressive looking tires are very capable on ice and in snow- I plow with Toyo Open Country AT's. They are snow rated and handle very well plus with the STOCK Limited slip (oh, yeah, I said it...) I have almost all the traction I could ever want. There is little wrong with the stock Ls providing you're not providing more power from the modified engine than it can handle AND you know how to drive. Believe it or not, knowing how to drive in less than ideal condition has more of an impact on where you can go than any mechanical change you can make. I've seen first hand stock vehicles go places you would not believe they went, in 2wd in many cases and in all cases (except my Ram) plain open diffs.

Remember, a full locker will tend to make the rear slid in slippery stuff and a front locker is an absolute no no in slippery stuff.

You should buy tires for the terrain you drive- if you rarely go off road in serious stuff there's no need for TSL's or Ground Hawgs. Before I discovered these Toyo's I ran separate snows for winter (Goodyear workhorse xtragrip) and Dunlops for street and the mild and medium occasional dirt I saw.

mr_ed

If you go locker and live with lots of snow, get a selectable! A locked rear end will scare the bejesus out of YOUR rear end on ice/snowpack.

bob4x4

With my Toyo mt's I can go in 2 wd where many have a tough time in 4wd.Yes I have no doubt they wear quicker than a milder tire.I have not hurt one yet either.I quit counting how many tire failures I had with the BFG AT's.I will admit that I never wore one out,but thank goodness for the tire replacement contracts I bought. The 3rd gen lmtd slip has worked great for me so far.A trutrac type set-up in the front would be great in some situations.

Bob

HOHN

Any locker I'd consider would be selectable--- most likely an ARB. The driveability of a Detroit or Powertrax is unacceptable to me, and there are many times where I'd prefer an open diff or LSD.

The warnings about a locked axle in certain conditions are wise-- I've already accounted for that. That's the main reason I'd rule out an "automatic" locker. I want the axle open or LSD until I tell it to lock, not vice versa.

For most of my driving, an aggressive LSD would work much better than an actual locker. My factory LSD is so loose (always has been, even with no friction modifier added) that I can jack up one side of the rear and overcome the LSD clutch just by twisting the wheel with my arms. That's FAR too weak to transfer any meaningful amount of tq. Breakaway tq on that thing has to be about 30-50lb ft at the most, which is pathetic.

The off-roading I do is basically hardpacked trails (two tracks) or snow covered gravel roads. I do not try to make my own trail, and I'll only consider fording water in an emergency.

I'm sick of spinning the tires at EVERY intersection no matter how easy a let out the clutch and massage the skinny pedal. I'm sick of having to engage 4wd to get up or down the 6% graded driveway when one side has some snow on it. I shouldn't have to have 400# in the bed to have ANY traction in the rear at all (with a limited slip!).

So I'm looking at two options AFTER I get new tires:

1) True Trac in the rear and ARB up front. This would give me incrementally more traction as I needed it.

2) True Trac front and rear with Dynatrac freespin conversion. This gives me LSDs front and rear, but it's expensive because there's no TrueTrac for the 32spline D60 axles, so I'd have to go to new axles and the freespin kit. this option costs more and gives me less potential traction, so I'm not to enthusiastic about this.

3) ARBs front and rear. This is also pretty expensive, but it gives the ultimate in traction when both are locked in. If I'm buying a compressor and lines for the front, and I have to yank the carrier anyway, it sure is tempting to just put an ARB in the back, too.

I'm not that concerned about the "safety" aspects of locking both axles up, you just have to know the vehicle's limits and behaviors and exercise good judgement.

Justin

1-5-3-6-2-4

I would go with an ARB and be happy.......I welded mine rear. I can live with tire wear for now, until I get to the ARB somewhere down my "to do" list........it hooks up hard but not street friendly for sure.

ARB front and rear hands down. at least the rear.

Big Blue24

The Definity's did have a recall like 2 yrs ago. All of those were safely pulled from the market and sold to Mexico.

They are only "D" rated, but you gotta remember, a "D" rated tire in 285 has more load capacity than stock 245 tire in "E" load range. I believe they are rated about 3400 lbs. The stock 245's in E are like 3190 or somewhere there about.

bullboy85

i guess it all depends on how much money you want to spend. u can see everything i have in my sig. no lockers just stock parts there and iv taken this truck everywhere, even down a jeep trail to rescue my buddy whos jeep broke on the trail. if it were me in ur position id go with a truetrack rear and call it good there. thats all i see u needing. now its all in what u want. what do u want this truck to be able to do?

olddodgetruck

what about rebuilding your posi you have now. i think a fresh posi has about all the traction you need in a street truck. i can plow about 4'' of snow in 2wd with mickey thompson baja claws in my parking lots. it sounds like your posi is toasted. on my truck i can break the lug nuts loose with both tires in the air in park. arb's would be nice but after buying the lockers and install kits it would be like $1000 an axle. thats if you install them yourself. around here speed shops want about 250-300 to install gears

Philabuster

No bueno on the ARBs in the rear because they are simply an open differential or spool--no inbetween. You NEED a good limited slip on the street--even with 35" tires to control wheelspin. My open diff was useless on and off the street. My TrueTrac is a HUGE improvement, but I would like more.

Looking at American Axle & Manufacturing (AAM--differentials in 2003+ Dodge trucks), they list what is essentially a TrueTrac combined with a electric locker--best of both worlds.

http://www.aam.com/index.php?s=49&item=96

I have no idea what axle this differential fits, but I would like one.

bullboy85

thats nice, im liking that one, anyone want to try one and tell us how it does?