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View Full Version : 4500 More Suited for Hotshot Work Over 1-Ton?


Truck30Haul
06-24-2008, 03:44 AM
This is a question I have mostly right now for research purposes. A guy I was talking to today was telling me that whenever I can to get a 4500 series truck since it has better hauling capability than the 1-ton 3500's for hotshot work.

I have read a little so far about these trucks and was wondering, since these are cab chassis based trucks, would it be possible to add a GN hitch onto these? And how would the pulling power be improved with these type trucks? If it came to the point where I wanted to do that in the future, I could simply put aside cash now for one. But I wanted to learn more about them before deciding to look into them. Any thoughts?

rich
06-24-2008, 07:56 AM
believe they have same drivetrain just can haul more weight and maybe bigger brakes. i would say gn is a yes but i believe you will only be able to run it with a flatbed

haulin-rv
06-24-2008, 05:17 PM
What kind of hot shot work?? The 4500 and 5500 can carry more weight on the chassis, but the gcwr is not much more than a 3500. Its only 26k. My opinion would be a 3500 cab chassis put a real sleeper on since the dot is cracking down on having a legal place to sleep, and a flat bed.

Truck30Haul
06-24-2008, 09:37 PM
What kind of hot shot work?? The 4500 and 5500 can carry more weight on the chassis, but the gcwr is not much more than a 3500. Its only 26k. My opinion would be a 3500 cab chassis put a real sleeper on since the dot is cracking down on having a legal place to sleep, and a flat bed.

3500 Chassis eh? Sounds like a good idea since the 4500 and 5500 are more expensive. I wonder what kind of sleepers can be installed on such a chassis? What about flat beds, where would you get one from?

skirsman
06-24-2008, 09:57 PM
I hot shot with a 4500 and I can see all the 3500 driving faster than me. I also know that the 3500 the can pull 16000kg but after 3yrs the are a big buch of problems.... My truck I drive with very low rpm and keep pushing and pushing. I thing I could use it for more 500.000km with no big problems

Colo_River_Ram
06-24-2008, 10:24 PM
Just why do you think they made the 4500 and 5500's ?? The thing that impressed me the most about my Sterling 5500 was the frame rail material 3/8" thick.

max speed is set at 75, with my 6 spd auto and 4.88 gears i'm turning 2500 rpm at 75 mph.. I am going to mount a hydraulic pump to the PTO on the tranny to run my winches / air compressors / welder, as engine mount kits are only rated to 10 HP..

As for GN hookups B&W does a flat bed mount ( you weld it right to your bed) I am about done with the bed when it is finished I will post some pics..

brazos
06-25-2008, 10:08 AM
Please check you "Private Messages" as I have sent you some information there that in your case might clear up some questions.

$.02 - Long run I think you will be happier, safer, and have more options with a 4500 or 5500 series over a One ton.

braz

Cummins610
06-25-2008, 01:44 PM
Go with the 4500 with an auto. My 5500 just beats you to death and the 4500 is just right.

floridagc
06-25-2008, 06:11 PM
I agree with 610 comment, I think the 4500 is a much better ride, I am at 13,600 on the scale with the utility boxes, welder and compressor. I also tow a 31 foot enclosed, I need to keep looking back to make sure the trailer is still there.

flgc

johnjudge
06-26-2008, 05:39 PM
http://www.turnoverball.com/custom.asp#

Jim Wilson
06-27-2008, 05:37 AM
If you are going with the 3500, the manual with 3.73 will put you at 63@2000rpm and 75@2400rpm only 100rpm less than the 4.88 auto 4500/5500. The only powertrain difference in a 2500/3500 MANUAL trans is the rearend. I tow at 60, so I'm not putting much power though mine either. The big differnce is deadhead miles- at 60mph you can get 25mpg in a 2wd 6sp manual 2500 vs 19mpg on a 3500 2wd dually manual. I would imagine that 4wd auto 4500/5500 would be even worse at 60mph- 16-18mpg?

Its hard to gauge with only 700 towing miles so far on my cab chassis, but from past trips with equal trailers the truck does not seem to effect mileage. I guess rolling resistance and frontal are what matter most when pulling a trailer. If you hotshot and always have a GN behind, mileage probably won't be an issue.

Colo_River_Ram
06-27-2008, 07:15 PM
http://www.turnoverball.com/custom.asp#

Here is some Pics of the first bed B&W made for the 4500/5500 's:

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/pics/data/500/medium/Right_Side2.jpg

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/pics/data/500/medium/side10.jpg

Barry Smith
06-29-2008, 10:09 AM
believe they have same drivetrain just can haul more weight and maybe bigger brakes. i would say gn is a yes but i believe you will only be able to run it with a flatbed

I'm pretty sure the 4500 has the 110 Dana and "Super 60" front axle.

Jim Wilson
07-10-2008, 07:14 PM
[QUOTE=Colo_River_Ram;2127388]The thing that impressed me the most about my Sterling 5500 was the frame rail material 3/8" thick. [QUOTE]
I've seen class 8 trucks with 1/4" frames. Are you sure the frame is 3/8" thick on the 5500? I know my 3500 is 3/16" and figured the 4500/5500 were the same, just a bigger c section. The rear axle of the 3500 cab chassis says 9350lb on the door. That is higher than the GVWR of the 2500(9000lb) I had. Even if you were way overloaded with a 30K GN and 6000lbs on the ball, you would be right under the rear axle rating for a 3500.

rfeiller
08-10-2008, 11:19 AM
the 26,000 combined weight of truck,cargo, and trailer is the limit set by the DOT so a class C license'd driver can use the 4500 and 5500 in states like CA if it is rated over 26,200 you need a class B or class A license. class B license in CA can only tow over 10,000lb if the use is for agriculture or RV as far as I understand. the truck is certainly capable of towing more. but be careful if you tow a utiltiy trailer over 10,000lbs.

Catfish Kody
09-25-2008, 07:02 PM
3500 Chassis eh? Sounds like a good idea since the 4500 and 5500 are more expensive. I wonder what kind of sleepers can be installed on such a chassis? What about flat beds, where would you get one from?

:o:o I came across a company in Vancouver WA that is making DOT approved sleepers for HotShots. They've been making lightweight campers and someone had them design exactly what I've been looking for.. this is their website http://www.panthercampers.com..

I guess they start at around $4400... alot cheaper than stretchin my cab![laugh] Check out the brochure they emailed me>>

Colo_River_Ram
09-25-2008, 09:13 PM
Why Dodge/Sterling does not offer a Quad Cab / DOT Sleeper option just blows my mind.. but then again these are the same folks that sells you a 4500/5500 4x4 truck that does not have room to run tire chains up front [dummy][dummy]

Catfish Kody
09-26-2008, 04:17 PM
[director] If only WE could talk to the engineers before they make anymore trucks!!

John DiMartino
10-01-2008, 06:56 AM
The 4500 has much more stabilty than the 3500 due to its stiffer suspension,and 19.5" tires/wheels. The difference is huge,simply no comparison,a 4500 will tow a trailer and you cant even feel it behind you.Brakes are a huge difference as well.The pulling power is better due to the Aisins lower gearing,and the differentials lower gearing.Of course it doesnt get quite as good fuel economy as a 3500,but you have a much more capable truck,with a higher GVWR,and the ablilty to tow bigger trailers easily.I feel if you are going to run over 23000GVWR ,the 4500 should be the one to get.

rfeiller
10-01-2008, 05:10 PM
John, i agree with you, one difference that i noticed in my 5500 if that the front wheel base is i believe 7" wider then the 3500 which does two things: more stability and tighter turning radius. my 5500 turns tighter circles then did my '05, 3500 dully 4x4.

well thought out trucks.

rfeiller
10-01-2008, 05:13 PM
****, Colo River Ram, with your creative metal working and welding abilities you ought to make your own. the one made in Canada is ugly.

rfeiller
10-01-2008, 05:14 PM
is darn, ok?

Colo_River_Ram
10-01-2008, 05:58 PM
Thanks Rich,

I would have to move operations south of the border to get cheap labor to build them as they are labor intensive, at least diesel would be cheap there.[laugh][laugh]...

I concur on the 4500 vs 5500 if your pulling a smaller trailer the 4500 with airbags would be the way to go.. those of us who tend to overload a bit needs the 5500.

I am impressed how well the Bullet handles the "Overloaded" trailer on and off the road..

haulin-rv
10-03-2008, 09:13 AM
:o:o I came across a company in Vancouver WA that is making DOT approved sleepers for HotShots. They've been making lightweight campers and someone had them design exactly what I've been looking for.. this is their website http://www.panthercampers.com..

I guess they start at around $4400... alot cheaper than stretchin my cab![laugh] Check out the brochure they emailed me>>

I picky officer could still get you for an illegal sleeper berth based on this part of the regulation.

"(c) Exit from the berth. (1) Except as
provided in paragraph (c)(2) of this section,
there must be a direct and ready
means of exit from a sleeper berth into
the driverís seat or compartment. If
the sleeper berth was installed on or
after January 1, 1963, the exit must be
a doorway or opening at least 18 inches
high and 36 inches wide. If the sleeper
berth was installed before January 1,
1963, the exit must have sufficient area
to contain an ellipse having a major
axis of 24 inches and a minor axis of 16
inches."

There is also a company in Tx making a fiberglass version that more of just a bed. I had one like what you are showing, it was made by M&M. They are less expensive too.


Why Dodge/Sterling does not offer a Quad Cab / DOT Sleeper option just blows my mind.. but then again these are the same folks that sells you a 4500/5500 4x4 truck that does not have room to run tire chains up front [dummy][dummy]

Just not enough room to make it legal dimension wise. The cab is not wide enough.

wiskeyVI
10-03-2008, 01:05 PM
I have to think they are better at towing RVs too.
This is my second trip alonga almost the same route.
Some stop and go, hills, fwy, hiway running about 60-70mph keeping it around 2100rpms.....8-9mpg...

Although I haven't weighed it, my Jayco is prolly about 9k.... Seems a bit low and from what I see here, the 4500s would get better.

rfeiller
10-03-2008, 02:06 PM
wiskeyVI, unless you tow a lot, the 3500 is much more comfortable to ride in then the 4500. i don't know why the low mileage unless it's your tires and wheels.
i don't know where your travel, but in new mexico with a 75mph spd limit, because of the gov on the 4500 set at 76mph you are the slowest thing on the road

wiskeyVI
10-03-2008, 02:55 PM
I'm thinking it may be the tires.....that or my trailer is way heavy.
These last two times to this spot, I did push it hard at times to beat sunset.
I'm out in NC right now.

Thanks for the advice. Colo gave good advice pertaining to this last time.

You guys are just shooting al kinds of holes in my self justifacation in getting a 45oo:cool:

rfeiller
10-03-2008, 05:07 PM
i questioned you mileage because i towed a 14,000 dump trailer with a 10,200 lb track loader at 75mph in new mexico with 1500lbs in the bed on my 05 3500dully quad cab automatic 3.73 4x4 long bed and and got about 12mpg. i towed it out here to northern CA the total weight was 23,800 lbs on the scale. i averaged between 10-11 and there are some good mountains between NM and northern CA. my truck was totally stock except for the lumber rack and srt10 factory hood.

sorry about the bubble, no one wants to ride in my 5500 including me. and the tongue weight of my trailers do not apply enough weight to smooth it out much. but it does do what it does very well.
wish i could have bought an 08 3500 instead but it just couldn't do what i needed.

wiskeyVI
10-03-2008, 07:57 PM
No Prob,
there's somthing amiss and I wil track it down.

Colo_River_Ram
10-03-2008, 11:05 PM
Just not enough room to make it legal dimension wise. The cab is not wide enough.

Well that is the general idea behind the post..Make one that is[duhhh] and I would like to see the driver height to berth chart..why would someone say 5'6" need a wider berth ..Just my thoughts On the subject...

vall17
10-24-2011, 03:39 PM
I have a 2011 4500 dodge and I do hotshot work in thew oil field. I feel safer and in more control with the 4500 and an engine brake. Use to pull with a 350-ford and had to take the median a couple of times. The 350's and 3500 seem to have more problems after a while of pulling the loads we pull. 7000# trailer and average about 7000 to 8000 on the trailer. The limit is 15000 which happens a little.Go with the 4500, it's better to have more than not ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!

Colo_River_Ram
10-24-2011, 04:20 PM
The Dana D110 rear-end is HD that's for sure. The 4500+ units have 19.5 rims and bigger disc brakes.

However after driving my 5500 for 3 yrs I am about 2" shorter [laugh]

White Ghost
10-28-2011, 04:55 PM
i love my 5500 . like vall 17 said it is way more safe than the 3500 :o and the fact i have put 10k on the bed is nice:o i would like to see you do that with a 3500[laugh]

eb290
11-01-2011, 08:35 AM
Either one will work fine. If you are going to haul a lot of weight on the bed, a 4500 or 5500 would be better. I have run 3500's for years with no problems. I hotshot in the oilfields in South Texas pulling a 40 ft gooseneck trailer. Combined truck and trailer wt. is 19,520 empty. I will put upwards of 16,000 payload on the trailer regularly. My last truck was sold with over 345,000 miles on it and my present truck has over 372,000 miles on it. With the 3500 you will get better fuel mileage and a better ride. With the 45-5500 trucks you will have to run combination plates, (at least in Texas) your insurance will be higher, fuel will be more,ect. Basically it is just going to be more expensive to operate. It is an individual choice, they will both do the job. One thing I will say is if you are going to pull a trailer, get one with disc brakes. Way less problems, much more stopping power. It might save your life.

White Ghost
11-04-2011, 09:50 PM
Eb290 if you are over 26k you should have aportioned ( not sure about spelling) plates any way. When you put 15 k on a trailer with 3500 you are pushing the limits of the truck . I know i have done so many times and I have had some close calls .I have over 400k on my 3500 and most of those miles are with a trailer . With my 5500 I feel better about pulling my 40'trailer with heavy loads.

eb290
11-05-2011, 08:32 AM
Don't need to be apportioned, truck and trailer are registered for 13,900, and 24,000 respectively. Went through a scale in Ok. a few weeks ago at 30,600, was pulled in. After he looked at my registration papers and saw that I had the road use and fuel permits he said have a good day. If you aren't apportioned and don't have IFTA, you must buy the proper permits for what that state requires then you can go where ever you need to. In the 15 years I've been doing this I've been all over the country and have never had any problems.
Yes, putting 15k on the trailer is all the company I work for will allow on a gooseneck and is a pretty good load, most of the work I do is with 5-10 k on the trailer. The old trailer I had with the magnet brakes was scary with a big load but the trailer I have now (for 3 years) with electric over hyd disc brakes, it is much more comfortable and safer.

White Ghost
11-05-2011, 01:44 PM
I don't see how you are getting away without the apportioned plates . Maybe the ifta tags are throwing them off. From what dot has told me anything with a combined weight of 26k or more needs to be apportioned. Thats why I have a class a with hazmat and the right tags. Do you run a log book?

eb290
11-05-2011, 05:16 PM
The way I understand it , weight has nothing to do with apportioned plates. We have a couple of flat bed hotshots (1 ton and 3/4 ton trucks) that are apportioned, it just has to do with how often you go out of state. The main reason they did it was to save the sales tax when they bought the truck. Like I said, I have gone all over and have never had any problems. I believe it just has to with road use fees, (permits) it keeps you from having to buy them before you enter the state or at the entry scale. I do know that you can't run regular license plates on trucks that are over 1 ton if you run commercially and pull a trailer. You must run either combination or apportion plates even if you run intrastate, at least in Texas.

White Ghost
11-05-2011, 11:43 PM
Ok I see what you are saying . But you do have to run a log book when you go out of Texas . Am I right ?

eb290
11-06-2011, 08:24 AM
I have to run a log book all the time. My registered wt is over 26,000, that is where the log book requirement starts. Actually, the company I'm leased to requires all trucks to run a log book, even the smaller flatbed hotshots. I go by the same rules as the over-the-road trucks, 11 hrs. driving, 14 hrs. on duty in a 24 hr. period ect.

338Lapua
11-14-2011, 12:52 AM
I will be upgrading to the 5500 when I get the new fifth wheel. I recently took a close look at a 5500 the local steeler had on the lot, compared it to my '06 3500, and the '11 3500 dually they had next to it.
The size of the brakes on that 5500 blew me away!!! The rear axle is HUGE!! the frame is C-channel compared to my 06's tube, but it is THICK.
My trailer is about 13.5K, maybe a little more, but the new one has an 18K gross, I can see me using every pound of that. With the wife-n-kids and all there stuff, you know how that goes. I will be going with the Kelderman 4-bag rear suspension, or something similar. I will be keeping my '06 though, never selling that thing.

Link to the Ford version
http://kelderman.com/old/productdetails-4491.php

Delmar
12-01-2011, 11:26 PM
I have to run a log book all the time. My registered wt is over 26,000, that is where the log book requirement starts. Actually, the company I'm leased to requires all trucks to run a log book, even the smaller flatbed hotshots. I go by the same rules as the over-the-road trucks, 11 hrs. driving, 14 hrs. on duty in a 24 hr. period ect.

Who are you leased to??? One of the big 3???

eb290
12-02-2011, 07:24 AM
Who are you leased to??? One of the big 3???

No, it is a small private company. (about 20-30 trucks, hotshot through 30 ton pole trucks) To many alliances and special rate deals with the big three. The driver (or owner-operator) takes it in the shorts like that. We have the same rates with everyone.

RamGazer
12-03-2011, 10:53 PM
Do any of you know what kind of hotshot delivery a 2500 SRW mega cab could do like my truck that is listed in my sig? From what I have read and posted in the towing forum, the only thing I can do is RV transporting. Put everyone is saying their is really no money to be made it that line of work. It's not even worth it to put a goose-neck in my bed the way everyone is talking about 2500's can't tow much of anything! :( Right now the only thing I pull is my 5,000lbs Joey Layton Lite travel trailer.

eb290
12-04-2011, 10:00 AM
To be honest with you a 3/4 ton truck is kinda the odd man out. Especially a short bed one like the mega cab. There are a lot of 3/4 ton trucks doing hotshot work but they mostly have flatbeds on them. You can just do much more with them. Wouldn't spend the $ on one unless you have a job to go to work. Check around, there is a lot of work for a 3/4 ton with the right company. Not towing though, unless you have a small trailer, the only problem with that is everyone will be wanting to overload you.

White Ghost
12-05-2011, 06:57 PM
Like eb290 said it is hard for a 3/4 ton to work in hot shot. Unless you have a a customer that ships alot of small parts or has a need for rocket launchers . But you will need to have hazmat endorsement on you license for that kind of work. I work for chilli peppers hot shot out of Kilgore Texas .

RamGazer
12-05-2011, 07:58 PM
Like eb290 said it is hard for a 3/4 ton to work in hot shot. Unless you have a a customer that ships alot of small parts or has a need for rocket launchers . But you will need to have hazmat endorsement on you license for that kind of work. I work for chilli peppers hot shot out of Kilgore Texas .

Is that a restaurant?

eb290
12-06-2011, 07:15 AM
I was in Kilgore yesterday, took a cementing head to Gulfstream Services on 135 north. Got stopped by the DOT on the way up, he wanted to check my overhang, knew I was ok, 47 inches,I had measured it. I had it pushed all the way up to my head board, it was almost 44 ft long.

White Ghost
12-06-2011, 11:25 PM
No it is not a restaurant . I know exactly were you were eb290 . I have hauled loads out of there many times. I have not been with this company long. But they are treating me way better than benchmark ever did .[redface][verymad]They bent me over hard and had their way with me:o