gristle missile

ok check this out anyone know what's up with this they are saying 270 and 460 click the link. Could that be i mean tst only gives 150 they say it also provides 500 tq so the numbers don't seem to add up.

http://www.dynamicdiesels.com/DodgePerforamance.html

is that even possible

gristle missile

http://www.pacificp.com/video.htm#track03


dude look at this is this real i mean can they really put out that much hp in a chip i wasn't sure and still am not sure but this is sick

gatf4

That looks like a blown turbo waiting to happen.
They don't mention that you need to add FASS, Twins, Injectors, O-ring heads. They do mention trans ugrades though. I'll take two

Tom488

"Dood"

First... the TST numbers are at the rear wheels (the only thing that really matters, IMO). These numbers from FlyByNightInc. are at the flywheel. There can be a 100HP difference between the two numbers, and an even larger difference in torque. Secondly, is that +270HP number a peak increase, or maximum increase? There's a difference. Yes, the TST is advertised at +150HP peak gain, but at a lower RPM, and a lower overall HP output, the gain is almost +190HP - again, at the rear wheels.

A TST, combined with an Edge EZ, can put out RWHP numbers in the mid-to-high 500's (560-570HP, with the right turbos). That's close to 700HP at the flywheel, or roughly a 375HP increase over stock.

So, do I believe a single box can do +270HP? Sure... in fact, TST could also claim about the same amount... if they used their max HP increase, measured at the flywheel, they could probably advertise it as a +270HP box.

gatf4

I'll shut up now

Kyle Graham

This is true kinda strange. I've never seen a chip or programmer that measures power at crank.

AK RAM

Tom is right. If you step back for a second and think about it, you can increase horsepower electronically via pressure and duration. Quadzilla has a 140HP pressure only box. TST has a 150HP (dynos closer to 180hp) duration box. Those are rear wheel numbers. Stack them and you have an extra 290hp...to the rear wheels. And yes, you would need twins, head work, fuel pump work, etc. The only thing new here is the ability to do both, pressure and duration, in one box. Until the recent appearance of programmers, you had to stack to get those numbers. Nothing unbelievable and totally doable.

Never go by crank horsepower numbers though. Wait for some verified rear wheel numbers. You will loose about 20% to 30% through the drive train. Take their 270hp at the crank, subtract just 20% (54hp), and you get 216hp to the rears. Would you believe me if I told you I got 215hp to the rears with the Bully Dog Power Pup?

Steve-l

Wait a minute here. We hear rear wheel HP numbers because a chassis dyno was used to measure before and after gains. In order to measure flywheel HP, you must use an engine dyno. This involves removing the engine and building all in truck electronics around it just to test. This is expensive and unnecessary. Now lets get back to basic physics. Stacking boxes has very limited value. The amount of power that can be generated is a factor of fuel properly burned over time. The limiting factor is always air. Adding fuel is easy, raise the rail pressure and or increase the injector size will do it. Adding air is more difficult, you can change the turbo, reduce restrictions in the intake and exhaust and modify the camshaft for a bit more valve flow. As the performance envelope is increased, the usable power band is narowed, fuel economy and reliability is sacrificed. Overfueling is very dangerous as it washes away the oil on the cylinder walls and causes piston failure. The next wive's tale I would like to address is the difference between flywheel HP and rear wheel HP. In this case, the first law of thermo dynamics comes into play. Mechanical power generated and not delivered, must appear as heat across the delivery system. That is the clutch, gearbox and differential(s). For every 10 HP lost equates to 6.4 KW of heat. How many of you have noticed any heat rise on your drivetrain? That's right, there is very little. Otherwise, there would be huge radiators under your truck and some pretty large fuel bills to boot. Here is a number to remember .42 lbs of fuel per HP hour. That's the efficiency of your Cummins. How much fuel do you use? Consider 6.2 pounds per gallon. Do your own math.
Steve

Tom488

This isn't true. In the case of a TST box, stacking with a pressure box has a very distinct benefit - the ability to deliver the same amount of fuel, but earlier in the ignition cycle. Dyno tests have proven that HP output is increased, and EGT's are decreased by getting more fuel into the cylinder quicker.
What wive's tale? It's a proven fact that there is between 15-20% loss of power through the drivetrain with an automatic transmission. Stock 305HP trucks regularly dyno in the 240-260HP range. Yes, some of that converts to heat. That's why we DO have a big radiator at the front of our trucks just for the transmission (actually, there's two). But it's not just the wheels that are being turned by the engine. It takes energy to turn all the components of the drivetrain. You've got (in the case of aftermarket trannies) heavy torque converters, several planetary gearsets, gearsets in the transfer case, and the oh-so-inefficient hypoid gear in the rear axle - not to mention several shafts. That all takes energy to spin around.

Steve-l

Of course I cannot say for sure what each box does, but most interface with both the cam and crank sensor. I run Banks and I know the power increase it offers, is derived by both advanced injector timing and higher rail pressure. It is a logical assumption that if your box interfaces with those same sensors, it is also adjusting the injection point. If you have derived more power by stacking boxes, then all I can say is you probably bought the wrong box in the first place. As far as 15% to 20% power loss across the drivetrain, wow. That equates to 80 HP at 400 HP at the engine, times 640 watts, that would be 51,200 watts of heat! I don't see more than a 10 degree temp rise on any of the components under my truck. I have the 6 speed and there is no cooler attached to it and the last time I checked the fuel economies are not so different between an automatic and a manual. I'm sorry, I can find no trace of that 51KW under my truck. I would believe 5% loss, not more. I hope you are not confusing the raw produced power of the engine vs the delivered power at the wheels. If so, that could easily account for 15%. Water pump 8 Hp, alternator 10HP, fan 6HP, power steering pump 4HP etc., but these numbers should be accounted for on an engine dyno, certainly to some degree.
Steve

v8440

Unless your truck is magical, it has roughly the same drivetrain loss as anything else. First, there's an AWFUL lot of metal and lubricants to spread the heat out over. Both axles, the transmission, the torque converter, the transfer case, the wheel bearings, and the tires themselves. (yes, they do slip a little no matter what)

Now, your 51kw figure is based on an output of 400 hp at the flywheel. How long do you propose to run the engine and drivetrain at that power level? An hour or two perhaps? After all, all the stuff named earlier has to heat up. That 51 kw wouldn't just show up instantly to peg a thermometer and melt the grille off the car behind you. All that transmission fluid and lubricants have to heat up. But, they also have to heat up the converter, axle housings, transmission case, and the heat exchanger for the transmission is still steadily pouring a lot of that heat out to the atmosphere.

Just because your coolant temp doesn't spike during a 400 pull for a few seconds or minutes does not mean the heat is not being produced. You're heating all that metal up, which uses most of the heat. Then, our cooling systems are designed with a TREMENDOUS reserve capacity. They can transfer far more heat than what they're normally tasked with during ordinary driving around.

It seems like you were viewing the 51 kw heat as sort of a heater that's just switched on, and aimed directly under your truck. A better analogy is a 51 kw heater that's switched on, and directed under your truck-with 3 or 4 gallons of transmission fluid and hundreds of pounds of iron, steel, and aluminum between the heater and the truck, all of which must be heated before you see tremendous temperatures under there.

Gypsyman

You obviously don't understand stacking boxes that affect different systems or parameters on your powerplant. As a matter of fact stacking boxes that affect different parameters has a compound affect on the individual boxes output.

Richard

Mike S

Is the Quadzilla box a better choice than the EZ when stacking with the TST, or does it do the exact same thing??

v8440

This question illustrates exactly why stacking boxes is beneficial. A box can make power by raising fuel pressure, advancing injection timing, or lengthening the injection event. (Some do a combination of these things) Power can be made by any single one or combination of these things. Most boxes do only one, and some do two. You don't generally want to stack two boxes that do the same thing, because you end up with overkill at best, or two boxes fighting each other for control over the same injection parameters at worst. Herein lies the reason for stacking-a duration box will usually work well with a pressure box or a timing box. So, you get two boxes that do different things, and use them both.

Tom488

Didn't we just discuss this? It doesn't ALL get converted to heat... it takes energy to turn the drivetrain... to overcome it's inertia and maintain it in motion.
So, then you would expect a stock 305HP truck to dyno at 290HP? Sorry... not going to happen. Ask any of the retailers/installers here that have their own dynos... 20% is a very valid, accepted, and PROVEN factor to use in estimating drivetrain loss. My stock 305HP truck first dynoed at about 260HP... my stock 310HP V10 gasser dynoed at 253HP. Where's your dyno slip showing this magical 5% loss?
No, I understand the difference between gross HP and net HP, as defined by SAE specs. This isn't the 60's, where manufacturers tested their engines without accessories on them.