24Valve Question
05-11-2006, 04:52 PM
#4
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I had to- mine had wriggled out a good bit- also on a fellow's 24V the pin had already protruded from the timing case.
So this is NOT a 12V only issue.
AlpineRAM
So this is NOT a 12V only issue.
AlpineRAM
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05-14-2006, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Deezul
which 24V need to worry about it?
Cummins knew there was a problem with the 12 vavle and addressed it when retooling for the 24 vavle. It is impossible to use a 12 valve gear casing on a 24 valve, unless you're running a P-pump.
05-15-2006, 03:50 AM
#11
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I've done the fixing of the KDP on early bone stock 24valves. 98 and 99.(stock at least for the timing cover part)
I've seen the evidence that piperca's theory is wrong myself. I do not know when they changed the tooling to have a neck that will prevent the pin from wriggling out, but 5 out of 5 early 24v engines did not have a neck in there and the pin did already protrude from the case. I can not predict whether it had been seated deeper and wriggled out or just had been installed that shallow- but I was able to seat it into the hole with a tapered punch and then either to install a tab or necking the bore down with a punch.
In my opinion the problem can be aggravated by the timing case bolts not being torqued correctly and in consequence the timing case vibrating slightly. A teardown on 2 engines showed me that the block side of the timing case had slight rub marks and elongated holes around the dowel pins on one of them, this engine also suffered some leaks from the timing case gasket. All the bolts lacked Loctite or similar material on them and were very easy to unscrew, so I assume that they either hadn't been torqued properly or the gasket had shrunk.
All these engines had been in trucks with more than 100 k miles with a service and maintenance history not known to me.
HTH
AlpineRAM
I've seen the evidence that piperca's theory is wrong myself. I do not know when they changed the tooling to have a neck that will prevent the pin from wriggling out, but 5 out of 5 early 24v engines did not have a neck in there and the pin did already protrude from the case. I can not predict whether it had been seated deeper and wriggled out or just had been installed that shallow- but I was able to seat it into the hole with a tapered punch and then either to install a tab or necking the bore down with a punch.
In my opinion the problem can be aggravated by the timing case bolts not being torqued correctly and in consequence the timing case vibrating slightly. A teardown on 2 engines showed me that the block side of the timing case had slight rub marks and elongated holes around the dowel pins on one of them, this engine also suffered some leaks from the timing case gasket. All the bolts lacked Loctite or similar material on them and were very easy to unscrew, so I assume that they either hadn't been torqued properly or the gasket had shrunk.
All these engines had been in trucks with more than 100 k miles with a service and maintenance history not known to me.
HTH
AlpineRAM
05-15-2006, 05:19 AM
#12
Mrs. missin on a mission & keeper of the can
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AlpineRam, you are very informative thank you.Another question for ya if you don't mind.We went and bought a 98 12V just a week ago. question is we looked it over and it looks like someone has had the timing cover off.Is there a way of telling whether or not it has been done?I'm not taking any chances, it's going to get tore down anyway but I was just curious if you could tell. thanx Cin
Last edited by CIN'S DODGE; 05-15-2006 at 05:20 AM. Reason: mispelled word
05-15-2006, 06:08 AM
#13
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If the pin has been arrested with the jig and a wormscrew you could tell- otherwise only if you remove the cover. If you had an endoscope you might just be able to get in there with a 90deg endpoint from the crankcase vent assy, but you don't see too good in there.
I'd pull the cover anyway and retorque all the bolts with locktite red and tab the pin. It's really cheap compared to the mess it makes when the pin comes out... and while you are in there you can change the cam if you want--- some guys like DonM come to my mind
- even if not it's a good time to check injection timing and maybe also see that the TDC pin dosn't stick which will help you when doing valve lash adjustments.
Glad to be able to help.
AlpineRAM
I'd pull the cover anyway and retorque all the bolts with locktite red and tab the pin. It's really cheap compared to the mess it makes when the pin comes out... and while you are in there you can change the cam if you want--- some guys like DonM come to my mind
- even if not it's a good time to check injection timing and maybe also see that the TDC pin dosn't stick which will help you when doing valve lash adjustments.Glad to be able to help.
AlpineRAM
05-15-2006, 10:58 AM
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AlpineRAM, that is very interesting. As I said in my previous post, Cummins claims it is "impossible" to have the KDP issue in a 24 valve. I sent an email to them specifically addressing this issue and they told me the following:
"There are no dowel pin issues with 24 valve engines. You can't always believe what you read on various websites. The old gear cases will not work on 24 valve engines. The VP44 injection pumps will not bolt up on them. Older engines would not work in trucks made for ISB engines for various reasons. The dowel pins can not physically come out of 24 valve engines."
This is from the horses mouth ... I'd be interested in seeing their response if someone tried to make a claim with a failure.
"There are no dowel pin issues with 24 valve engines. You can't always believe what you read on various websites. The old gear cases will not work on 24 valve engines. The VP44 injection pumps will not bolt up on them. Older engines would not work in trucks made for ISB engines for various reasons. The dowel pins can not physically come out of 24 valve engines."
This is from the horses mouth ... I'd be interested in seeing their response if someone tried to make a claim with a failure.