azjeff

I have a '95 ctd in a 2500 & when I purchased it a couple of months ago, it was kind of a test to see if I really liked driving a diesel. I needed a different truck to pull a new equip. trailer I bought that goes out at 7,500# when loaded. The truck was a nice clean '95 and it drives as good as you could expect any '95 to drive - no squeeks, rattles and is dependable with a good fuel consumption avg. 19 regular city/freeway driving & 11.5 loaded. It works great, I just got used to driving the newer 1/2 ton trucks on the market before buying this one and the ride is so much better in a 1/2 T. I sold my other truck after finding this one & liking it and having a garage space issue. (Wife couldn't understand why her car should sit outside)
I'm wondering if there is any noticeable difference in the 24 valve as far as 1. noise 2. power 3. fuel mileage better or worse 4. drivablility (ride) of the '99-02 truck.
I am not interested in getting a new '03 or '04 yet, I think I'll wait until they are 2-3 years old. If anybody has experience in comparing the 12 to 24v I'd be interested in hearing about it. Thanks, Jeff ???

rich

they have a heavier suspension for towing so any 2500 or 3500 is going to ride ruffer then a 1/2 so your not going to get a softer ride they are made for towing. same noise, about the same mileage, more power when stock but the 12v is easier to turn up as far as money wise then the 24v

azjeff

Rich cowboy thanks for the reply. I have a Superduty 450 - 460 gas that I only use as a flatbed, it just didn't have the guts to tow a heavy trailer when the truck was loaded. So I was kind of aware of the nature of the heavier trucks, I was just hoping that since so many of these are used to only tow campers and recreation toys and other than that to be daily drivers, well maybe the boys at Dodge found a way to somehow soften the ride with new spring rates that could take a heavy load, but be gentler on the streets when empty.
That to me would seem to be a project that could be achievable. I don't think I mean like an air ride - or do I?
And on the motor, is the 24v as reliable as the 12 or does some of the electronic controls seem to be a weakness? Sorry to sound to sound so dumb, but this is my first diesel, so dumb comes easy for me. Thanks Jeff

rich

I've known a few that added air ride and it seemed to help. the 24v do have a lot of electric crap on them so their is a chance that it will have fits. my 98 has 181k on it and the fuel gauge and lift pump are the only problems that i have had so far.

Dr. Evil

Jeff,

Without a doubt, if you want to add even a modest increase in horsepower the 12 V is the way to go. When adding fuel boxes or even in stock form, the computer can throw codes that require taking the truck to the dealer to clear. From this they CAN void your warranty on your injector pump. Sure the 24 V's can make a tremendous amout of HP, but it costs much more than bombing a 12 V. Dont get me wrong, there is really nothing wrong with the 24 V's but IMHO, if its in good shape, you would be wise to keep your 12V.

Another added bonus is that you dont have to worry about fuel pressure guages, lift pumps, pusher pumps etc. etc. etc.

Push Rod

Being a fan of the 24valve, I'm amazed to find myself agreeing with Dr. Evil

The 12 valve engine has a number of good things going for it:

1) Its quieter than the VP44 24 valve.
2) Better fuel economy than the 24 valve.
3) While the 24 valve can't be considered unreliable, the 12 valve is bulletproof, especially the injection pump.
4) Owing to the P7100 and head design, the 12 valve can make much more power below 1500 RPM. The 24 valve engines are more capable past 1800 RPM for 'casual' bombers.
5) Slight increases in HP are quite easy and inexpensive with a 12 valve. You do have to watch EGTs though, as they can get right up there in a hurry.

The 24 valve trucks have a definite advantage for the towing guy who bombs, as if you find yourself getting warm with a load, you can simply drop the power level on your chosen fueling box. 24 valve trucks are also easier to bomb, as its mostly plug and play. Injector swaps are also easier on a 24.

Personally, if it were me, I'd stick to the 95. Solid truck ;D

By the way, the ride between the 12v/24v will be virtually identical, as the running gear of the trucks didn't really change much. To improve your ride a considerable amount, consider a set of aftermarket shocks. It'll take some of the jar out of the ride.

Rod

azjeff

Thanks again for the replies on my 12v. It seems that the opinions of the group are - if it's working good why change trucks? That seems like good advise so what is involved "bombing" a 12v.
When I took the truck to the shop right after the purchase for setting the valves I asked about additional power & he told be about what he called performance injectors. I had him install them. The difference I found was my top end improved when out of OD & unloaded, as in towing mode, from just under 70 mph before to right at 75 mph after the change. That seemed good to me because then I was able to tow loaded at 65 mph @ 2500 r's even with the 4.10 rears & splitter in high.
I'm just unfamiliar with bombing, so if someone could give some ideas that would be pretty neat. Thanks Jeff

BigBlue

One thing I like about the 24v (PROPERLY valved ) is the fact that I can control the power and EGT's in cab with the push of a button. The VP44, IMO, would be a little better for driveability when heavily bombed because it can infinately adjust timing by itself. Where as the 12v's are set at 15* or 16* or whatever, and that's it. There's no adjusting of them (at least easily). I remember a thread a while ago where someone was debating a p-pump conversion on his 24 (I know this is different but bear with me), and if I remember, one of the bigger complaints was the crude adjustment of the timing. I could be wrong, but that's what I remember. The 24v head does flow more air in and out, so that's always a plus. If I had to do it over again (and could have convinced my parents that a diesel with 80K miles on it is still a great truck), I would get a 12v just because they are cheaper to turn the power up on. I do like the way the 24v sounds over the 12v. The 24v can produce almost as much power as a 12v. It really all boils down to whether you want ease of bombing and having to really watch EGT's, or having to spend a little extra money to bomb, but not having to worry about EGT's as much.

JyRO

Azjef - Included is my opinions:

1. Noise - I not only know the 12V are slightly quieter, but I think they sound better too.
2. Power - For real cheap your 12V can make gobs more power than a stock 24V. Most trucks on the road are stock. A stock 24V guy would drop his jaw to the floor when you motor on by him. Lots of fun IMO.
3. Fuel Mileage - generally better for the 12V.
4. Drivability - overall about the same.

As for your statement about keeping a good running truck, I think you're "right on." All this is coming from a 24V owner. If I had it all to do over again, I'd find a 98 model (not to be mistaken for a 98.5 24V) with the 12V motor and a quad cab.
But I have a great running 2000 24V truck with some mild bombing putting about 300 h.p. and 650 torque to the ground. So why now would I go back to a 12V? Well I won't, but I actually have a soft spot for the 12V'ers. They're good at what they do.

I'd have to believe that the 12V trucks would be more reliable. The P7100 is more reliable due to the VP-44 & LP combo (from what I've learned). And the less electronics you have, the less electronic problems you're gonna have ... that is just a fact.

As for getting power out of yours. I don't think you got that much out of the injector change you got. Now I'm not so familiar with the 12V motors, but there's some adjustable wheel that is associated with the P7100 pump, that can be turned to throw more fuel to the engine (resulting in various amounts of smoke, depending on how far the wheel is turned). I hear that's where you'll get the best bang for the buck. And turning that wheel now with your different injectors may be very significant, especially compared to just injectors alone.

Go to the 12V forum to learn about that *wheel*. Somebody on this thread may chime in on it though.

IMHO, your method for buying a 12V truck now, and maybe a 24V truck later, is SOUND. And extremely cost effective. A properly maintained ISB will last a long time.


- JyRO

azjeff

OK, I'm convinced about keeping my 12v, so what happens when the fuel is turned up? That was an option I was given before the injector change, but with the opinion that mpg would go down & smoke may occur with more fuel being burned all of the time. What experiences have others had with boosting the pump flow for regular normal empty every day driving - that is what I do most of the time. Having more "go" sure would be neat, but not at the expense of say 2 mpg. Am I being cheap or just a little naive? I really don't know the answers to these questions so if I want the 300 hp what do I need to do & what will the end results be to the longevity of the motor & mpg?

I'd like to consider all options so bring 'em on. Thanks, Jeff

Push Rod

Do you happen to know what injectors wee installed? Does RV230, or Marine 300 sound familiar? I'd toss a TST #5 plate in the truck, play with the star wheel to the point where when taking off from a light you get a slight puff of smoke that cleans up almost immediately. That should get you your 300 ponies that you're looking for. You can crank up the fuel a bit, however the more smoke you make off the bottom end, the less power you're making down there too. Keep in mind that the stock automatic won't handle much more than what you've currently got, so if 300 is your aim point, you'll need to look into a torque converter/valve body.