ddestruel

I have heard several people mention that the grind on the #5 plate is not as efficient nor smooth as the #10 for 180 pump applications and supposedly you can build more power and it tows alot better too.... better control of your EGTs?

So if you do install a #10 plate instead of the #5 how do you measure back and from what reference point to set it to work properly and how far back to make the thing work efficiently.

I have heard that it is Not recommended from all of the local Montana diesel shops, yet two guys that i know out of california said they were 10 times happier (pun intended) when a shop down in california installed a #10 in thier trucks in place of thier #4 & 5 plates.

What gives here guys, is this just one of those "ancient chinese secrets" :-X.

Thanks .
Dusty

kandgo

My truck was and is set up for towing,I wanted a bit more umpf and the #10,retime,3000 gov springs,ape,straight exh. It gave me exactly what was needed until the trans goes or I decide to upgrade it,I too have heard the same thing as the #10 is not a good plate,just wish I could let you take mine for a spin it is simply a joy to drive and use the truck now, now for the plate Jim Fulmer showed me the difference of the #10 it is a gradual smoothe curve not radical in anyway from the other plates,it is really a smooth acceleration for great pulling responses,now as for setting it up ,I would ask Jim as I did not do the install.He did go over the install with me and it seems pretty straight forward as for ease of installation,he also will know how and where to set it at for what your truck is equiped with,Goodluck Rick

dave0415

I have the #10 plate, 3kGSK, in a 215 pump and straight pipes. I have found this to be a very good setup for towing with the five speed trans.

Dave

rharveysr

I too have the #10 plate and 3k GSK in my 215 pump truck..This is a sweet combination. But also things could get a little warm too (EGT's without some air mods).
I have installed this setup in a 180 pump'd truck with an automatic..The guy was very pleased with the results.
One other benefit with the 10 plate over the others(5,6 or whatever) you dont have to adjust the governor level because there is not a ledge for it to get hung under.
With what I have found with my truck and others..this is one great combination... for towing..

Rick

Jim Fulmer

If it is said that a #10 will not work right then I have a question for them.....why! The #10 is probably the best overall plate there is, if your wanting to change from the #5 to it that is your call. On setting them up always start at the stock position and go from there.

Jim

rharveysr

I am with Jim....this plate should have went into my truck the first time...
Stock position and work from there...

Rick

ddestruel

Jim i think the reason why is people just take good enough as it. I put together a 354 hemi with a .500 lift cam for my rock crawler cj7 and EVERYBODY up here in the squaller zone asked why I didnt just put a 350 ch#$% and an rv cam into it. Nobody wonders now but until then they all bad mouthed the idea. i think the same applies with the #5 vs #10 some people think why try anything else if the #5 is close enough. (I dont agree with this arguement)

This may sound like a morronic question but how do you determine stock position with an aftermarket plate. since this motor came to me with a crooked #5 in it & the govenor had never been adjusted right and timing was originally set a 8* then upped to 12 or 14 and has since slid back, im trying to correct the original owners screwups. for reseting the #5 or at least for squaring it up i just micd from that stepped up lip at the back of pump housing above the govenor to the lip of the torque plate and got it square then i brought the govenor up to the lower curve of the torque plate so that it would quit falling below and against the side of the plate. now the dead spot is gone and the truck runs cleaner.


The last truck i helped with we had a claiberation plate that fit over the top of the Tplate. Do i need to find one of those? otherwise i have been reading Jim's posts about this today and i am faciniated by what you have had to say. I would really be interested in changing if the benefits are there especially for towing but also for the learning experience, i am learning never to trust the general concensis. There are always different ways to set things up and make them work (like Hemi's vs. wedge motors).

when i get a #10 ill try measuring it up to as close to centered between the 4 corners surrounding it as i can then ill start sliding it towards the gov?

Well either way thank you guys for the input ill keep digging for info but this is looking more like the route i will more enjoy.

rharveysr

When we did my GSK I just took the plate out and layed it on the work bench. When we put the plate back in...we just centered the plate as close as we could with the screw slots in the plate. And then we made sure that the front side of the plate(front of the truck) and the front lip of the pump were equal..This will get you in the neighborhood.

Rick

ddestruel

Sounds like a smart spot to start i was more concerned with if i was not precise enough i might have a grenade on my hands but i guess if she was going to blow she would have already with the way that thing was in there before

rharveysr

Nope....it will work fine!

If you want pm me with your phone number and I will call you...

Rick

RCW

The thing to keep in mind on the fuel plates is that you are absolutely not changing your fuel curve (where the fueling rate is richer at lower engine loads for more torque). You are only changing the rate of feed at the fully open setting of the governor.

As you load the Cummins the governor will open as far as allowed to by the fuel plate, at any throttle position, until it acheives the setting signalled by the position of the governor rack follower on which the throttle lever attaches, and than it backs down and rides on the governor rack setting. (These engines are load sensing).

On your truck with the standard transmission and the 4" exhaust from the turbo back, you will likely be able to handle a #10 plate if you move your timing up to at least 13.5 degrees. Otherwise you are going to hit the wall on EGT everytime you get the throttle open and start pulling.

However, I would try moving the #5 plate forward before going for a #10. Just watch your pyrometer for the EGT so you do not go too far. If the #5 will run you over the 1,250 degree F mark, it is all the plate you will want without other changes to the exhaust and breathing.

TST provides a guide for their plates www.tstproducts.com/power_kits_trial.htm; and part of that guide is predicated on how the engine was set up in the original Dodge. You need to consider the changes you have made when moving to another plate, but the 180 pump has a different fueling profile than a 215 and responds in a non linear fashion to a plate such as the #10.

If you want a more usable increase in power for pulling, that you will see right off the idle postion until you reach the max, have the initial fuel timing lead in the pump set up by 6 degrees, and then set the static timing on the pump gear to 13.5 or 14 degrees. The initial fuel lead will need to be done by a pump shop, but it is well worth the price.

Jim Fulmer

Plate placement, put the plate in the middle then go forward about .030 as a guess.....that's about stock, actually I drive the truck (knowing what it can stand) and tune from there, if a person doesn't want gauges then I detune it a bit if they don't care or can watch it I give it a tad, if then want all out....give then the tricks. You can set a 10 up to come on fast and defuel early or come on smooth and defuel late letting the EGT's rise to 1400 in an auto......it's all about tuning!

Jim

MDKram

You must be careful about checking the position of the lever arm when placing a 10 plate in a 180 pump. If you position the plate too far forward the lever may get hung up on the leading edge of the plate and your bottom end will suffer.

Also, changing plates does change the fueling curve, that is why we change plates. The fueling curve is defined or established by placing the governor in a full fuel call and running the engine through the entire RPM range. Granted, if the load on the engine is not great enough then the rack won't be placed in a full fuel position by the governor. Also, the rate of fuel delivery is not changed when a larger fuel plate is installed. Rather, the duration of the injection event is increased which results in more fuel being injected. To increase the fuel injection rate, you must install injectors with either larger orifices or more orifices. This is a whole other discussion!

Anyway, just check the lever arm position on the plate and the 10 will work great in a 180HP pump! The reason why the 10 is used is it decreases fuel at high RPM more than the 5 does thus keeping EGTs more manageable.

dodgeman01

I love my #10 plate but my 370's injectors don't like the 180HP pump much :- If you have toi drive my truck under 2krpms you feel like your on a bucking bull.
DM01

Got Smoke?

[quote author=dodgeman01 link=board=7;threadid=23156;start=0#msg217543 date=1070468057]
I love my #10 plate but my 370's injectors don't like the 180HP pump much :- If you have toi drive my truck under 2krpms you feel like your on a bucking bull.
DM01
[/quote]

Aaron, having driven your truck several times in the past couple of months I have to disagree. Maybe if you were MUCH lower than 2K rpms, but even with those small loads on the back of your truck I didn't notice any bucking. Although I was keep'n the R's up on that clutch! :P