2WD & 6-speed: Universal Joints, Driveshaft, Vibrations
12-16-2009, 11:46 PM
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2WD & 6-speed: Universal Joints, Driveshaft, Vibration
Minor vibrations had built up in drivetrain at highway speeds, and several times we had experienced a "rumble strip" vibration/sound off-idle at stop-or-start on this '04 Quadcab/Long bed. At 157,000-miles it was time for first service.
Did a search here and elsewhere, and nothing definite about rumble-strip vibration except one:
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...75&postcount=7
The long two-piece driveshaft on this truck has three [3] 1485-series AAM u-joints.
Dealer confirmed #5102157AC at good-guy price of $87/ea.
This site had best pictures, info:
Dan the Gear Man/Quad4x4 (Montana)
http://quad4x4.com/Dodge%20Drive%20Shaft.htm
Read a number of threads in searches pertaining, and saw nothing that told me I wanted anything but AAM replacement pieces.
Several times saw reference to trying to make SPICER 1480-series joints fit by "redneckery" (grinding; as fit is .10 off); no way.
In more general searches, found that NEAPCO (knee-ap-co) part number 3-0486 was a direct fit (page 100 of this .pdf catalog)
2007 NEAPCO Universal Joint Catalog
http://www.neapco.com/pdf/2007universaljointcatalog.pdf
Where, 2500 "All with 3-joint shaft W/Manual Trans" calls for the 3-0486 joints.
Am new to Beaumont, TX, so scouted several locations and am now glad to have found:
Dr. Driveshaft
485 E. Courtland
Vidor, TX 77662
toll free 866/ 525-7227
"Driveshafts built or repaired;
Dynamic balancing, done in-house;
(Only balancer between Baton Rouge and Houston)
Housings straightened;
Gear ratios changed;
Four Wheel Drive a specialty."
I expressed my concern that NEAPCO parts -- what they proposed -- might not be as good as the AAM pieces; that I was willing to pay the difference if they were aware of the AAM lasting longer, and was told not so in their experience. (Do It Once and Do It Right)
An on-truck examination the previous evening showed that the center joint was missing a seal, so I knew the work was worth undertaking what with this many miles.
Back on the rack this morning the shaft was removed, the u-joints replaced (sure enough, the center joint was rust and dust), and the others were worn but serviceable.
It was a pleasure to be in this shop, to watch a bit and to be able to ask questions. Changing u-joints on some of the cars I have owned from the 1960's and 1970's was one thing, but after driving big trucks I had come to an appreciation of what diesel torque can do. I wanted an old-fashioned, long-experienced man or men in a specialty shop to do the work, and that is what I found.
Better that my truck was on the ho-hum scale of work, and not one of the "interesting" projects that came through. (Should see the stack of twisted driveshafts against the wall). That philosophy served me well once I learned it:
Treat each problem as part of a system and address the whole.
Back in Dallas where I lived the previous half-century I knew who to call to get a recommendation for a shop like this, where dealers and other service organizations sent the work their men either weren't equipped for, or was beyond their experience or the time involved (the ones who care about their customers, that is).
Came away with these:
From now on I'm going to have joints changed at no more than 100,000 miles in the future as
1] Though perhaps not likely, the shaft assembly can start to go out-of-balance as wear increases;
2] Though an on-truck inspection may reveal the need for further work, the only way to know is in removal and disassembly;
3] As per Spicer/DANA, any time joints are removed the driveshaft assembly should be re-balanced.
As these joints are contained by snap rings, the labor involved was low, and re-balancing was minor. I could tell the difference the moment I hit the end of the Interstate 10 entrance ramp. I mentally kicked myself, as the vibrations removed were not beneficial to the transmission or rear axle gears. (Generally I know better about waiting for things to break or wear so appreciably).
The costs of labor and material was fair for the time involved and the parts pricing I had already researched (parts plus shipping plus shop overhead) and I would recommend this shop to anyone. I could easily have paid more and received less.
I'll keep my fingers crossed as to the "rumble strip" vibration and will -- if it doesn't recur -- assume it a matter of worn joints and the center bearing assembly, where, as in
TSB 03-003-04 Launch Shudder
http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2004/03-003-04.htm
the carrier bearing may need height adjustment as I am carrying more than "design load" (2 pax) in daily service.
As to the check list of vibrations in general, I was glad to find this post a while back:
Carson Dodge Support: Vibration on 3rd Gen Ram
http://www.carsondodge.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67
That makes a list for me to work down, and the following will I suppose "complete it" short of more serious investigation. Suggestions are welcome.
Harmonic Balancer Check
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...6&postcount=12
My thanks to others on the many posts concerning Dodge Ram CTD's and u-joint/driveshaft questions.
Did a search here and elsewhere, and nothing definite about rumble-strip vibration except one:
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...75&postcount=7
The long two-piece driveshaft on this truck has three [3] 1485-series AAM u-joints.
Dealer confirmed #5102157AC at good-guy price of $87/ea.
This site had best pictures, info:
Dan the Gear Man/Quad4x4 (Montana)
http://quad4x4.com/Dodge%20Drive%20Shaft.htm
Read a number of threads in searches pertaining, and saw nothing that told me I wanted anything but AAM replacement pieces.
Several times saw reference to trying to make SPICER 1480-series joints fit by "redneckery" (grinding; as fit is .10 off); no way.
In more general searches, found that NEAPCO (knee-ap-co) part number 3-0486 was a direct fit (page 100 of this .pdf catalog)
2007 NEAPCO Universal Joint Catalog
http://www.neapco.com/pdf/2007universaljointcatalog.pdf
Where, 2500 "All with 3-joint shaft W/Manual Trans" calls for the 3-0486 joints.
Am new to Beaumont, TX, so scouted several locations and am now glad to have found:
Dr. Driveshaft
485 E. Courtland
Vidor, TX 77662
toll free 866/ 525-7227
"Driveshafts built or repaired;
Dynamic balancing, done in-house;
(Only balancer between Baton Rouge and Houston)
Housings straightened;
Gear ratios changed;
Four Wheel Drive a specialty."
I expressed my concern that NEAPCO parts -- what they proposed -- might not be as good as the AAM pieces; that I was willing to pay the difference if they were aware of the AAM lasting longer, and was told not so in their experience. (Do It Once and Do It Right)
An on-truck examination the previous evening showed that the center joint was missing a seal, so I knew the work was worth undertaking what with this many miles.
Back on the rack this morning the shaft was removed, the u-joints replaced (sure enough, the center joint was rust and dust), and the others were worn but serviceable.
It was a pleasure to be in this shop, to watch a bit and to be able to ask questions. Changing u-joints on some of the cars I have owned from the 1960's and 1970's was one thing, but after driving big trucks I had come to an appreciation of what diesel torque can do. I wanted an old-fashioned, long-experienced man or men in a specialty shop to do the work, and that is what I found.
Better that my truck was on the ho-hum scale of work, and not one of the "interesting" projects that came through. (Should see the stack of twisted driveshafts against the wall). That philosophy served me well once I learned it:
Treat each problem as part of a system and address the whole.
Back in Dallas where I lived the previous half-century I knew who to call to get a recommendation for a shop like this, where dealers and other service organizations sent the work their men either weren't equipped for, or was beyond their experience or the time involved (the ones who care about their customers, that is).
Came away with these:
From now on I'm going to have joints changed at no more than 100,000 miles in the future as
1] Though perhaps not likely, the shaft assembly can start to go out-of-balance as wear increases;
2] Though an on-truck inspection may reveal the need for further work, the only way to know is in removal and disassembly;
3] As per Spicer/DANA, any time joints are removed the driveshaft assembly should be re-balanced.
As these joints are contained by snap rings, the labor involved was low, and re-balancing was minor. I could tell the difference the moment I hit the end of the Interstate 10 entrance ramp. I mentally kicked myself, as the vibrations removed were not beneficial to the transmission or rear axle gears. (Generally I know better about waiting for things to break or wear so appreciably).
The costs of labor and material was fair for the time involved and the parts pricing I had already researched (parts plus shipping plus shop overhead) and I would recommend this shop to anyone. I could easily have paid more and received less.
I'll keep my fingers crossed as to the "rumble strip" vibration and will -- if it doesn't recur -- assume it a matter of worn joints and the center bearing assembly, where, as in
TSB 03-003-04 Launch Shudder
http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2004/03-003-04.htm
the carrier bearing may need height adjustment as I am carrying more than "design load" (2 pax) in daily service.
As to the check list of vibrations in general, I was glad to find this post a while back:
Carson Dodge Support: Vibration on 3rd Gen Ram
http://www.carsondodge.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67
That makes a list for me to work down, and the following will I suppose "complete it" short of more serious investigation. Suggestions are welcome.
Harmonic Balancer Check
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...6&postcount=12
My thanks to others on the many posts concerning Dodge Ram CTD's and u-joint/driveshaft questions.
12-21-2009, 04:23 AM
#3
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Just made another 700-mile roundtrip Friday to Sunday. No vibration of the "rumble strip" type. Previously, any trip of 100-miles or more would produce such. Overall vibration reduction was such that even passenger noted difference.
07-01-2011, 06:54 PM
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I just went through the same thing with my truck. See sig.
At 96K miles, the carrier bearing was shot and so was the center U joint.
After calling aound to all the parts wharehouses, no one listed a new carrier bearing. Dodge wants $186 for a new carrier bearing that says made in Tawain right on it and $86 per u joint. I said no thanks.
I looked into having a 1 piece aluminum shaft made, but at 100" it would be too long
So after some research I found that Spicer makes a carrier bearing (part number 210391-1x) and its only about $60. So $60 for a new carrier bearing, $90 for 3 new joints ($30 each w/ lifetime warranty), $80 labor to have the joints and carrier bearing pressed on, and another $60 to balance the whole thing and its all back together and no more shudder or vibrations.
At 96K miles, the carrier bearing was shot and so was the center U joint.
After calling aound to all the parts wharehouses, no one listed a new carrier bearing. Dodge wants $186 for a new carrier bearing that says made in Tawain right on it and $86 per u joint. I said no thanks.
I looked into having a 1 piece aluminum shaft made, but at 100" it would be too long
So after some research I found that Spicer makes a carrier bearing (part number 210391-1x) and its only about $60. So $60 for a new carrier bearing, $90 for 3 new joints ($30 each w/ lifetime warranty), $80 labor to have the joints and carrier bearing pressed on, and another $60 to balance the whole thing and its all back together and no more shudder or vibrations.
07-03-2011, 01:16 AM
#6
Registered User
Please note that this is a very common problem. I replaced 2 center U joints before 30k miles and knew this is not normal. The fix I used was to install a spacer above the center carrier bearing reducing the acute driveshaft angle. This drastically reduced vibration and noise and I haven't experienced another U joint failure since.
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07-03-2011, 10:35 PM
#8
Registered User
I have found that there are now Spicer Life non-greasable joints available to replace all the troublesome AAM joints in these 3rd gen shafts without any grinding, and contrary to the first post, there won't be any reason to change them every 100k miles. They have a great seal to keep out moisture and gunk, and should be able to last the rest of the vehicle's life.
07-04-2011, 05:52 PM
#11
Proprietor of Fiver's Inn and Hospitality Center
My 03 LB quad cab 3500 dually 6sp 4.10 was (I was told) the 5th one off the Mexico assembly line (sort of scarry). This of course was the first of the Gen 3 trucks. I pull a 16,000# fifth wheel with it with 3200# pin weight. I was having heavy vibration in 1st and 2nd getting going. It had never been reported at that point. Luckily local Dodge had an excellent drive train man who took the time to ride with me, hang over the side, mess around and finally decided to put in a 1/2" in spacer above the carrier. The change was quite noticable making us feel we were in the right spot. Finally narrowed it down to 3/16" of an inch to "almost" eliminate all shake when loaded. Did not and do not have a problem when running solo.
100K suggestion is a good one - - pushing toward that and will be there this year. Hmmmm??????
Bob
100K suggestion is a good one - - pushing toward that and will be there this year. Hmmmm??????
Bob
06-09-2012, 10:04 AM
#12
Registered User
Bumping this up as I've discovered a 1 piece quality aluminum driveshaft option for 2wd SHORTBOX trucks:
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/3r...ive-shaft.html
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/3r...ive-shaft.html
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